HVR-V1U: Sony unveils new 24P HDV camcorder

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Great posts, Barry!

[Marvin Emms]

Recording a progressive frame as two fields is suboptimal. It throws away the redundancy between the fields away and pushes data up the frequency scale where it is more likely to be lost during quantization than with the encoding of a full frame. Worse picture quality for a given bitrate.

24p stored as 2:3 in 60i may or may not waste significant additional data, it depends how it is implimented.

I wouldn't say there is 'nothing' wrong with it, it can be improved. Given the encoding chipsets are probably not capable of encoding a full frame currently, this is an acceptable state of affairs.

[Craig Irving]

Yes, great posts indeed. Thank you for clarifying things it all for me!

[Craig Irving]

One more question. Is this 2:3 process different from 3:2 pulldown? Or is it just a different way of writing it? Or are they actually the opposite of each other.

This is the first I've seen it written as 2:3 pulldown, all though I'm sure you guys all know what you're talking to... so maybe just point me to a good guide :)

[Marvin Emms]

Thats a question I am shaky on answering, I think by convention one may refer to the creation of interlaced footage and other to the recreation of the original progressive frames, but I will add that it can get worse depending on the application.

Some analog recording formats are 2:2:3:3 owing to the preservation of complete frames within the stream.

[Ethan Piliavin]

Originally Posted by Barry Green

There's nothing wrong with that, the HVX does its 1080/24p mode the same way.

I thought the V1U was the first camcorder at this price level to do 1080/24p...Does tghe HVX actually do 1080/24p? and if so, whats all the fuss then about the V1U?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I am new to all of this!

[Chris Hurd]

Hi Ethan, it's not a stupid question. Welcome to DV Info Net.

Yes the Panasonic HVX200 does 1080p24, but it's a different kind of HD camcorder. It records HD video in the DVCPRO HD format using flash media, not tape.

The V1U is not the first camcorder at this price level to do 1080p24. The Canon XH A1 costs about the same money and was introduced about the same time, and before that, we had the Canon XL H1, for a lot more money (and please, no pointless arguments about whether it's Frame mode or progressive -- all that counts is that the video coming out of all these camcorders is 24p).

The fuss about the V1U is that it is an amazing HDV camcorder with a highly innovative feature set (with HDMI output, for one example). But, like any other camcorder, it's just a set of tools. The real magic is, what can you build with this great set of tools. That's what all the fuss is about.

[John Bosco Jr.]

Ethan,

It's all in marketing. The V1 is a grand cheaper than the HVX 200, so hence the low price claim. The V1 does true progressive 1080 24P, so hence that claim; although, as Chris said, 24P and 24F (Canon XH series, XL-H1) are basically the same animal.

Other marketing ploys of the camera are 1080 60p scanning: You will never see this because it is quickly turned into 1080 60i (interlaced). 4:2:2 color: You can only take this live. Unless you use a solution to record either the component or HDMI outputs (not practical for field or portable use). For firewire using its hard drive and record to tape, it's all ready converted to HDV (1440 x 1080i 4:2:0 [less color information] @ 25mb/s). Thus, no matter the marketing, the camera's image is no better than other professional under 10k HD cameras, with the exception of certain characteristics like Sony's colors tend to be richer and more red than cannon cameras.

However, marketing or not, think about it...A professional camera producing high definition video for under 5K. That was unheard of a year ago. The V1 produces stunning color-rich images. The only drawbacks: no variable frame, no 720p, and, of course, the HDV codec - highly compressed video and audio.

John

[Bob Grant]

Do not overlook that you can hook the V1 into the BMD Intensity card and record using the CF DI in 4:2:2. Of course this is not the only camera that can do that, any HDV camera with HDMI can do the same.

This does not gain gain you anything coming off tape, only recording live, so you'll be tethered to a PC. Still you can run HDMI a fair distance.

As said before, these are remarkably cheap options that were unheard of until recently. Probably the biggest problem now having so many choices is instead of enjoying the abundance of riches we argue over which is the best.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

The HVX also upsamples in both vertical and horizontal, so the image is quite a bit softer than in it's native 720p mode. Panasonic was the first to do true 24p at 1080 in a budget camcorder, Sony was the first to do it really well. The Canon 24f isn't "true" 24p, but that's more market term than it is rational discussion; one can't tell the difference, and at the end of the day it's about the visuals, not the math.

[Heath McKnight]

The HVX 200's 1080 setting is called 1080i 24p and 30p.

heath

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Bob Grant

Probably the biggest problem now having so many choices is instead of enjoying the abundance of riches we argue over which is the best.

An excellent point, Bob -- and an embarrassing truth as well. Hopefully we can steer more toward talking about what we're actually doing with this technology instead of debating superlatives.

[Heath McKnight]

Use what works for you; I love the Z1u and V1u and the DVX100a.

heath