HVR-V1E(replacing the Z1e)

Chris Hocking · September 7th, 2006, 07:41 PM

Forget the camera! I can't wait to see the HVR-DR60! Hopefully it fits nicely on my Z1P...

Gene Crucean · September 7th, 2006, 08:03 PM

I've got to admit that this thing is coming up short on my expectation list. Unless that image quality is face melting I'm looking elsewhere.

I want the Z1 replacement to be true 1920x1080 30p/24p with variable frame rates. Tape and card based. HD SDI out and a flip function for the LCD. Hell... build a body that accepts 35mm still lenses and I'll buy 5 of them right now.

Heath McKnight · September 7th, 2006, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene Crucean

I've got to admit that this thing is coming up short on my expectation list. Unless that image quality is face melting I'm looking elsewhere.

I want the Z1 replacement to be true 1920x1080 30p/24p with variable frame rates. Tape and card based. HD SDI out and a flip function for the LCD. Hell... build a body that accepts 35mm still lenses and I'll buy 5 of them right now.

This is NOT a Z1 replacement, just an addition. And if you want all of that, maybe a RED is for you, but even at $40,000 (estimated) out the door, it's still a bit beyond most of our members' range. Also, this is the European version, and the FX7 we've been discussing is the Japanese. Let's wait and see what the American version can do.

heath

Lee Wilson · September 7th, 2006, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hocking

Forget the camera! I can't wait to see the HVR-DR60! Hopefully it fits nicely on my Z1P...

I have, in the past, shot with a Z1 plumbed into my Apple Powerbook with a firewire lead and iMovie running, but this looks neater !!!

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/1423/hvrdr60tv1.jpg

Chris Hocking · September 7th, 2006, 08:56 PM

It certainly does! I also love the fact that it uses the same batteries as the Z1. Very cleaver.

Gene Crucean · September 7th, 2006, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

This is NOT a Z1 replacement, just an addition. And if you want all of that, maybe a RED is for you, but even at $40,000 (estimated) out the door, it's still a bit beyond most of our members' range. Also, this is the European version, and the FX7 we've been discussing is the Japanese. Let's wait and see what the American version can do.

heath

I'm aware Heath, but thanks.

Heath McKnight · September 7th, 2006, 09:29 PM

To the person who said this replaces the Z1e--it does NOT replace it. The Z1e isn't going anywhere.

heath

Mark Utley · September 8th, 2006, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee Wilson

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/786/vyr3.jpg

I really like the position of the audio controls. Why does the zoom ring spin infinitely now, though? Seems like if Sony wants to take a step forward, they have to take a step back.

Heath McKnight · September 8th, 2006, 12:14 AM

I agree...Except, why do I only see three assign buttons? Must be some more somewhere...

heath

Damian Clarke · September 8th, 2006, 04:24 AM

Aww man...just read over the specs of the FX7 with anticipation...nope, no, no, no, no, no and no...why have Sony always got to take 1 step forward then 2 back? So I then had a look at the V1E specs..oh this looks more like it, 20x zoom, 4:2:2, true 1920x1080p....hang on...what do you mean it is 'processed internally' to 50i for compatibility in NLE's..what? How the hell does that work then? So, am I correct in thinking the image sensor is indeed true 1080 25p, but then deliberately interlaces it to 50i before recording to tape? Ok, then you import it into say Premiere Pro under what preset? The normal Sony HDV 50i I presume. Then surely this means that you have to deinterlace the image on output, destroying that nice resolution the camera sensors picked up originally. What's the point or indeed the difference between this and 1080i ? Why couldn't you just give us straight 1080p, no jiggamapokery processing etc. At the Sony factory they do have perfect cameras rolling off the belt, then at the last stage of manufacture they employ a little guy with a big box of spanners, he's on low pay, but he has a big smile on his face like a cheshire cat.
Has my logic taken the wrong path, surely I must be missing something? I know it's early stages and we will have to wait for a proper release, but based on the specs from Sony at the moment I am not a happy chappy unless someone can clarify it.
Sorry for the rant dudes. ;)

Mark Utley · September 8th, 2006, 04:44 AM

Damian, as I understand it, the camera shoots true progressive. I'm guessing it's something to do with the CMOS chips that allows it to be recorded the way it is (however it is!). Hopefully they're release more information on it soon.

I have a feeling that whether or not the camera shoots true progressive will be something people ask for a very long time.

Damian Clarke · September 8th, 2006, 06:25 AM

Sorry Mark I just realised I re-iterated your comment on a step forward then back in my previous post hehe.
Anyhow, after reading some other posts there is an interesting view that the image is indeed 1080 progressive all the way, just 'wrapped' in a 50i stream for compatibility. Fair enough since the HDV spec dosen't include 1080p. I can get my head around that since the same is true of many AVI files, the AVI is just a container for the video which can be encoded with different codecs.
I currently own an FX1 but am planning to add a second camera next year. It was/might still be another FX1, but with the news of the V1E...hmmm.
The trouble is, trying to get your equipment to match technically and forward thinking. Would there be any point in having this alongside an FX1 in a wedding shoot, one recording 1080p and the other 1080i? Perhaps 2 V1E's and the FX1 for backup...1080p televisions are sure to become more standard, which leaves the FX1 at a disadvantage...V1E would be better suited...
I'm sure with this news, a lot of you guys et gals are facing these questions?

Lee Wilson · September 8th, 2006, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Utley

I really like the position of the audio controls. Why does the zoom ring spin infinitely now, though?

To stop it jumping to a new (absolute) zoom position if you have previously changes the zoom on the rocker switch, as these changes are not reflected in the zoom ring.

Understand ?

Tom Roper · September 8th, 2006, 09:32 PM

I'm looking forward to this camera. While on one level I too would like to see native 1920 x 1080 i/p, that Sony would forge ahead with a CMOS version of the 960x1080i sensor is validation they believe they will have picture quality to retain a strong market share against the Canons of the world. It's indisputable the Canon GR-XH1's native 1440x1080i sensor leads the class on resolution alone, but I saw those clips from it early on and concluded there are equally important if less quantifiable factors that impart a better live quality realism to video streams. The FX1/Z1U series have smoother gradation and better tonality. If a Z1U replacement (yes ahem..I KNOW it remains the so called "flagship") sacrificed its tonality and gradation to achieve a relatively speaking noisier Canon image, one might as well just get the Canon and be done. But I eagerly await what Sony will bring to market in the prosumer class whatever the timetable.

Heath McKnight · September 8th, 2006, 09:57 PM

I've been thinking about everything with the V1e, and I'm starting to wonder what's up with a US version. We can assume, based on the V1e's specs, the V1 US will be:

1. 1920x1080

2. Cmos sensors, which are lightning fast compared to the CCD, if I'm not mistaken.

3. It's progressive and interlace.

So, let's speculate a little bit. A US version could have 60i/50i and 30p/25p. But somehow, with the Z1e going nowhere and staying put, I'd assume the same for the Z1u. And that camera does 60i/50i, so I don't know if the V1u would have 50i/25p. But maybe it will, like the Z1u.

Since it's progressive, and I'm going out on a limb here, and judging by the Canon XL H1's specs out of the box and the HD110 and HVX200, I think Sony may throw 24p in there.

I know it's speculation on my part, but I'm just guessing. The XL H1 does 24f, 30f and 60i (25f/50i is an add-on); the HVX200 does 24p, 30p and 60i; the HD110 does 24p and 30p. So why wouldn't Sony put 24p in a camera to compete with the others? 24p was officially added to the HDV spec sheet recently.

http://www.hdv-info.org/HDVSpecifications.pdf

Sony has 24p in their higher-end systems, and I know that we feel Sony doesn't want to compete with the XDCAM HD, etc. But, I feel they NEED to compete with the other sub-$10,000 cameras.

My .02 and I guess we can add this to the wishlist! :-) And as I always say, I'll believe it when I hear it!

heath

September 7th, 2006, 09:29 PM	#22
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	To the person who said this replaces the Z1e--it does NOT replace it. The Z1e isn't going anywhere. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

September 8th, 2006, 12:14 AM	#24
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I agree...Except, why do I only see three assign buttons? Must be some more somewhere... heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

September 8th, 2006, 04:44 AM	#26
Mark Utley Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 479	Damian, as I understand it, the camera shoots true progressive. I'm guessing it's something to do with the CMOS chips that allows it to be recorded the way it is (however it is!). Hopefully they're release more information on it soon. I have a feeling that whether or not the camera shoots true progressive will be something people ask for a very long time. __________________ Mark Utley

September 8th, 2006, 09:57 PM	#30
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I've been thinking about everything with the V1e, and I'm starting to wonder what's up with a US version. We can assume, based on the V1e's specs, the V1 US will be: 1. 1920x1080 2. Cmos sensors, which are lightning fast compared to the CCD, if I'm not mistaken. 3. It's progressive and interlace. So, let's speculate a little bit. A US version could have 60i/50i and 30p/25p. But somehow, with the Z1e going nowhere and staying put, I'd assume the same for the Z1u. And that camera does 60i/50i, so I don't know if the V1u would have 50i/25p. But maybe it will, like the Z1u. Since it's progressive, and I'm going out on a limb here, and judging by the Canon XL H1's specs out of the box and the HD110 and HVX200, I think Sony may throw 24p in there. I know it's speculation on my part, but I'm just guessing. The XL H1 does 24f, 30f and 60i (25f/50i is an add-on); the HVX200 does 24p, 30p and 60i; the HD110 does 24p and 30p. So why wouldn't Sony put 24p in a camera to compete with the others? 24p was officially added to the HDV spec sheet recently. http://www.hdv-info.org/HDVSpecifications.pdf Sony has 24p in their higher-end systems, and I know that we feel Sony doesn't want to compete with the XDCAM HD, etc. But, I feel they NEED to compete with the other sub-$10,000 cameras. My .02 and I guess we can add this to the wishlist! :-) And as I always say, I'll believe it when I hear it! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

September 7th, 2006, 07:41 PM	#16
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Forget the camera! I can't wait to see the HVR-DR60! Hopefully it fits nicely on my Z1P...

September 7th, 2006, 08:03 PM	#17
Gene Crucean Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 295	I've got to admit that this thing is coming up short on my expectation list. Unless that image quality is face melting I'm looking elsewhere. I want the Z1 replacement to be true 1920x1080 30p/24p with variable frame rates. Tape and card based. HD SDI out and a flip function for the LCD. Hell... build a body that accepts 35mm still lenses and I'll buy 5 of them right now.

September 7th, 2006, 08:56 PM	#20
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	It certainly does! I also love the fact that it uses the same batteries as the Z1. Very cleaver.

September 8th, 2006, 04:24 AM	#25
Damian Clarke Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Lincolnshire, United Kingdom Posts: 95	Aww man...just read over the specs of the FX7 with anticipation...nope, no, no, no, no, no and no...why have Sony always got to take 1 step forward then 2 back? So I then had a look at the V1E specs..oh this looks more like it, 20x zoom, 4:2:2, true 1920x1080p....hang on...what do you mean it is 'processed internally' to 50i for compatibility in NLE's..what? How the hell does that work then? So, am I correct in thinking the image sensor is indeed true 1080 25p, but then deliberately interlaces it to 50i before recording to tape? Ok, then you import it into say Premiere Pro under what preset? The normal Sony HDV 50i I presume. Then surely this means that you have to deinterlace the image on output, destroying that nice resolution the camera sensors picked up originally. What's the point or indeed the difference between this and 1080i ? Why couldn't you just give us straight 1080p, no jiggamapokery processing etc. At the Sony factory they do have perfect cameras rolling off the belt, then at the last stage of manufacture they employ a little guy with a big box of spanners, he's on low pay, but he has a big smile on his face like a cheshire cat. Has my logic taken the wrong path, surely I must be missing something? I know it's early stages and we will have to wait for a proper release, but based on the specs from Sony at the moment I am not a happy chappy unless someone can clarify it. Sorry for the rant dudes. ;)

September 8th, 2006, 06:25 AM	#27
Damian Clarke Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Lincolnshire, United Kingdom Posts: 95	Sorry Mark I just realised I re-iterated your comment on a step forward then back in my previous post hehe. Anyhow, after reading some other posts there is an interesting view that the image is indeed 1080 progressive all the way, just 'wrapped' in a 50i stream for compatibility. Fair enough since the HDV spec dosen't include 1080p. I can get my head around that since the same is true of many AVI files, the AVI is just a container for the video which can be encoded with different codecs. I currently own an FX1 but am planning to add a second camera next year. It was/might still be another FX1, but with the news of the V1E...hmmm. The trouble is, trying to get your equipment to match technically and forward thinking. Would there be any point in having this alongside an FX1 in a wedding shoot, one recording 1080p and the other 1080i? Perhaps 2 V1E's and the FX1 for backup...1080p televisions are sure to become more standard, which leaves the FX1 at a disadvantage...V1E would be better suited... I'm sure with this news, a lot of you guys et gals are facing these questions?

September 8th, 2006, 09:32 PM	#29
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	I'm looking forward to this camera. While on one level I too would like to see native 1920 x 1080 i/p, that Sony would forge ahead with a CMOS version of the 960x1080i sensor is validation they believe they will have picture quality to retain a strong market share against the Canons of the world. It's indisputable the Canon GR-XH1's native 1440x1080i sensor leads the class on resolution alone, but I saw those clips from it early on and concluded there are equally important if less quantifiable factors that impart a better live quality realism to video streams. The FX1/Z1U series have smoother gradation and better tonality. If a Z1U replacement (yes ahem..I KNOW it remains the so called "flagship") sacrificed its tonality and gradation to achieve a relatively speaking noisier Canon image, one might as well just get the Canon and be done. But I eagerly await what Sony will bring to market in the prosumer class whatever the timetable.