Atomos Ninja and the V1U at DVinfo.net

Jeff Allen · April 10th, 2011, 10:25 PM

Thought I would let everyone on the V1U forum know that I received my Atomos Ninja last week, and I did some test shots over the weekend. Appears to work very well with the V1U so far. Still working out my rig and the configuration, but pleased with the results so far. Workflow is GREATLY enhanced, not to mention some quality improvements capturing to ProRes 422 at full 1920X1080. Let me know if anyone has any questions, and I will try to answer all I can.

D.J. Ammons · April 11th, 2011, 05:46 PM

Jeff, thanks for the report. I was wondering how well it would work with the V1.

Andrew Smith · April 12th, 2011, 05:49 PM

Just checked out the Vimeo video for the Ninja and it's very impressive for $995 USD. Looks like that will be it for tape for long shoots with a stationary camera. (The downside being the need for a HDMI connecting cable from the camera to the unit - a necessary evil ... not good for when you are on the run.)

Pretty awesome.

Andrew

Jeff Allen · April 12th, 2011, 06:44 PM

Andrew, the HDMI cable connection is not too bad. I found a nice Sony cable that has a "swing arm" cable connector type, so that I can adjust the cable to a right angle and it is less obtrusive that way, but was not able to find anything similar that was the right length, so I have some extra cable tied up that is a little annoying (1M was the shortest I could find locally).

One thing that I find more challenging is that the Ninja changes the weight distribution on the camera pretty significantly.

Most of my shots are from a tripod, so once adjust, it is not as much of an issue, but it does greatly change the weight distribution and feel of the camera if shooting "run and gun" or hand-held.

But, given the work flow advantages (working with Final Cut Pro), and quality enhancements (especially color grading), I was very willing to make those trade-offs.

Happy so far, but my real test will come this weekend when I have to use it to shoot an outdoor event, where I will be moving from setup to setup pretty quickly.

Andrew Smith · April 12th, 2011, 07:09 PM

My main concern is that it only saves to the ProRes formats and that I use Premiere Pro (and am not about to change).

Not exactly sure on how compatible the format is for ingest to the editing software.

Andrew

Simon Wood · April 13th, 2011, 01:47 AM

Very cool to see the life of these cameras being extended with these recorders. The V1 is a great camera, and the weakest link was the HDV codec. I have a similar camera (XLH1) and have been using a Nanoflash for a good while to get around its shortcomings (and it has served me very well).

The competition is increasing, prices are dropping, and soon there will be recorders available for every type of work-flow (choosing a recorder is going to be as difficult as choosing a camera soon).

Right now the focus seems to be mainly recorders using the ProRes codec, which is all a bit apple-centric. Hopefully there will be more PC friendly choices on the way.

Jeff Allen · April 13th, 2011, 06:33 PM

Andrew, are you editing in PPro on a Mac or PC? I have PPro on the Mac and could test for you, but I think it will work natively with ProRes, if you are on the latest version.

Jeff

Andrew Smith · April 13th, 2011, 06:40 PM

Hi Jeff,

I'm editing PPro on the PC, currently at v2. Will have to upgrade some day.

Not that the Ninja is an immediate need.

Andrew

Seth Bloombaum · April 13th, 2011, 07:07 PM

Repeating what I've been told - the latest QT for PC includes a ProRes decoder. Presumably, that means that if Premiere PC can open QT, it can open ProRes. That's the way it works in Vegas (PC).

Andrew Smith · April 13th, 2011, 07:26 PM

Thanks. That's good enough for me.

Andrew

Justin Zimmerman · April 19th, 2011, 01:03 PM

so my V1U firewire port is dead.

will this impact the use of the Atomos Ninja, or is it all through the HDMI port?

the camera itself is in PERFECT condition.

thanks,

jcz

David Stuart Shapton · April 19th, 2011, 01:45 PM

Actually, this is almost the perfect case for a Ninja. It only needs a working HDMI port. Essentially you're replacing the whole of the camera behind the lens and the sensor!

Dave Shapton
President
Atomos EMEA

Justin Zimmerman · April 19th, 2011, 02:09 PM

fantastic.
could you briefly explain the differences between the two models available on B+H?
i'm assuming the second version has storage included.
how much recording time can i expect out of the more expensive option?
furthermore, does the Ninja use proprietary batteries?
if so, how long will the Ninja function with the included batteries.
THANKS!

jcz

David Stuart Shapton · April 19th, 2011, 03:00 PM

I would go for the full version, which includes the carry case, batteries, docking station etc. At the risk of sounding like I'm plugging my own product as opposed to giving advice to a question that was asked, it's a much better deal.

We have the batteries made for us. They're the same quality as Sony's. They're not proprietary but are standard NP- mount. We include a charger but you can use Sony's batteries and Sony's charger if you want.

The two models are simply with and without the extras included in the case. It makes much more sense to buy the full kit, because it contains batteries, charger, docking station and of course the case itself. They're Sony NP-mount - type batteries. You can use Sony ones instead. There's no storage included because you can buy it much cheaper than we can supply it! Don't forget the Ninja uses spinning drives as well as SSDs.

Each of the two included batteries will give you up to 2.5 hours if record time, or much more, depending what mode you're using the system in.

Hope this helps

Dave Shapton
Atomos

Jeff Allen · May 2nd, 2011, 07:40 PM

For those interested in how the V1U performs with the Ninja, I have posted some additional test footage that I shot last weekend here:

Shot with the V1U, into the Ninja - ProResHQ, Edit in FCP, Color Corrected (very quickly) in Apple Color, then compressed in Compressor using x.264 codec, then uploaded to Vimeo.

Going to show some side by side HDV versus Ninja Output hopefully next.

I was really dying to move to something like an FS100, but after seeing the quality that I am getting from the V1U, I think it has extended the life of my V1U. I feel in a number of conditions, the final results using the Ninja would rival what I would get using a FS100. Ignoring low light shooting of course...

I am sure if I was shooting short film or documentary, I may feel differently, but I am starting to love my V1U again, thanks to the Ninja. Wow, never thought I would be thanking a Ninja?

April 10th, 2011, 10:25 PM	#1
Jeff Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 40	Atomos Ninja and the V1U Thought I would let everyone on the V1U forum know that I received my Atomos Ninja last week, and I did some test shots over the weekend. Appears to work very well with the V1U so far. Still working out my rig and the configuration, but pleased with the results so far. Workflow is GREATLY enhanced, not to mention some quality improvements capturing to ProRes 422 at full 1920X1080. Let me know if anyone has any questions, and I will try to answer all I can.

April 11th, 2011, 05:46 PM	#2
D.J. Ammons Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 506	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U Jeff, thanks for the report. I was wondering how well it would work with the V1.

April 12th, 2011, 05:49 PM	#3
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,064	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U Just checked out the Vimeo video for the Ninja and it's very impressive for $995 USD. Looks like that will be it for tape for long shoots with a stationary camera. (The downside being the need for a HDMI connecting cable from the camera to the unit - a necessary evil ... not good for when you are on the run.) Pretty awesome. Andrew

April 12th, 2011, 06:44 PM	#4
Jeff Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 40	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U Andrew, the HDMI cable connection is not too bad. I found a nice Sony cable that has a "swing arm" cable connector type, so that I can adjust the cable to a right angle and it is less obtrusive that way, but was not able to find anything similar that was the right length, so I have some extra cable tied up that is a little annoying (1M was the shortest I could find locally). One thing that I find more challenging is that the Ninja changes the weight distribution on the camera pretty significantly. Most of my shots are from a tripod, so once adjust, it is not as much of an issue, but it does greatly change the weight distribution and feel of the camera if shooting "run and gun" or hand-held. But, given the work flow advantages (working with Final Cut Pro), and quality enhancements (especially color grading), I was very willing to make those trade-offs. Happy so far, but my real test will come this weekend when I have to use it to shoot an outdoor event, where I will be moving from setup to setup pretty quickly.

April 12th, 2011, 07:09 PM	#5
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,064	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U My main concern is that it only saves to the ProRes formats and that I use Premiere Pro (and am not about to change). Not exactly sure on how compatible the format is for ingest to the editing software. Andrew

April 13th, 2011, 01:47 AM	#6
Simon Wood Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Entebbe Uganda Posts: 768	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U Very cool to see the life of these cameras being extended with these recorders. The V1 is a great camera, and the weakest link was the HDV codec. I have a similar camera (XLH1) and have been using a Nanoflash for a good while to get around its shortcomings (and it has served me very well). The competition is increasing, prices are dropping, and soon there will be recorders available for every type of work-flow (choosing a recorder is going to be as difficult as choosing a camera soon). Right now the focus seems to be mainly recorders using the ProRes codec, which is all a bit apple-centric. Hopefully there will be more PC friendly choices on the way. __________________ http://vimeo.com/channels/guerrillafilms

April 13th, 2011, 06:33 PM	#7
Jeff Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 40	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U Andrew, are you editing in PPro on a Mac or PC? I have PPro on the Mac and could test for you, but I think it will work natively with ProRes, if you are on the latest version. Jeff

April 13th, 2011, 06:40 PM	#8
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,064	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U Hi Jeff, I'm editing PPro on the PC, currently at v2. Will have to upgrade some day. Not that the Ninja is an immediate need. Andrew

April 13th, 2011, 07:07 PM	#9
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U Repeating what I've been told - the latest QT for PC includes a ProRes decoder. Presumably, that means that if Premiere PC can open QT, it can open ProRes. That's the way it works in Vegas (PC). __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

April 13th, 2011, 07:26 PM	#10
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,064	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U Thanks. That's good enough for me. Andrew

April 19th, 2011, 01:03 PM	#11
Justin Zimmerman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 101	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U so my V1U firewire port is dead. will this impact the use of the Atomos Ninja, or is it all through the HDMI port? the camera itself is in PERFECT condition. thanks, jcz

April 19th, 2011, 01:45 PM	#12
David Stuart Shapton New Boot Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Nottingham Posts: 20	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U Actually, this is almost the perfect case for a Ninja. It only needs a working HDMI port. Essentially you're replacing the whole of the camera behind the lens and the sensor! Dave Shapton President Atomos EMEA

April 19th, 2011, 02:09 PM	#13
Justin Zimmerman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 101	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U fantastic. could you briefly explain the differences between the two models available on B+H? i'm assuming the second version has storage included. how much recording time can i expect out of the more expensive option? furthermore, does the Ninja use proprietary batteries? if so, how long will the Ninja function with the included batteries. THANKS! jcz

April 19th, 2011, 03:00 PM	#14
David Stuart Shapton New Boot Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Nottingham Posts: 20	I would go for the full version, which includes the carry case, batteries, docking station etc. At the risk of sounding like I'm plugging my own product as opposed to giving advice to a question that was asked, it's a much better deal. We have the batteries made for us. They're the same quality as Sony's. They're not proprietary but are standard NP- mount. We include a charger but you can use Sony's batteries and Sony's charger if you want. The two models are simply with and without the extras included in the case. It makes much more sense to buy the full kit, because it contains batteries, charger, docking station and of course the case itself. They're Sony NP-mount - type batteries. You can use Sony ones instead. There's no storage included because you can buy it much cheaper than we can supply it! Don't forget the Ninja uses spinning drives as well as SSDs. Each of the two included batteries will give you up to 2.5 hours if record time, or much more, depending what mode you're using the system in. Hope this helps Dave Shapton Atomos

May 2nd, 2011, 07:40 PM	#15
Jeff Allen Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 40	Re: Atomos Ninja and the V1U For those interested in how the V1U performs with the Ninja, I have posted some additional test footage that I shot last weekend here: Atomos Ninja Test Video on Vimeo Shot with the V1U, into the Ninja - ProResHQ, Edit in FCP, Color Corrected (very quickly) in Apple Color, then compressed in Compressor using x.264 codec, then uploaded to Vimeo. Going to show some side by side HDV versus Ninja Output hopefully next. I was really dying to move to something like an FS100, but after seeing the quality that I am getting from the V1U, I think it has extended the life of my V1U. I feel in a number of conditions, the final results using the Ninja would rival what I would get using a FS100. Ignoring low light shooting of course... I am sure if I was shooting short film or documentary, I may feel differently, but I am starting to love my V1U again, thanks to the Ninja. Wow, never thought I would be thanking a Ninja?