Ninja at DVinfo.net

Sherif Choudhry · September 11th, 2010, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin

Bumped into this today:

Atomos - Enter The Ninja

Less than $800 Euros seem to buy a portable HDMI recorder into ProRes codec.

What do you think regarding 7D video out and this box?

Hi, this thread is from the canon 7D forum, and its made clear that HDSLRs dont output a true HD picture out of their HDMI out (stupid I know), but what about the Sony V1, which as we know does output a full HD real-time uncompressed signal over HDMI (ie prior to being compressed to HDV as it gets to tape?)

Would be interested if anyone knows anything more about this!

cheers

Victor Wilcox · September 11th, 2010, 06:14 PM

The HDMI out from the V1U is 4:2:2 uncompress HD. I think it's 1920x1080, but can't find a reference to confirm that. It's at lease 1440x1080.

Andrew Smith · September 12th, 2010, 05:12 AM

I can confirm that the V1U HDMI port outputs a full resolution signal directly from the sensor block, before the content would pass through the compression stages for writing to tape as HDV.

On that basis, you will have the full 1080 resolution.

Andrew

Simon Spear · September 13th, 2010, 08:07 AM

Has anyone on here actually seen and worked with uncompressed footage from the V1? I too am interested in extending the lifecycle of my V1, but I don't want to start grasping at straws and hoping for miracles. I mean it is not going to turn it into an EX1 or anything like that is it!?

Cheers, Simon

Sherif Choudhry · September 13th, 2010, 01:54 PM

Well the EX1 has many additional factors that contribute to excellent footage, eg, focusing is easier, probably a better lens resolution, better compression scheme etc But even EX1 footage is compressed, though not as bad as HDV! That's why the ninja is exciting because it could take the uncompressed output before HDV compression and convert to Apple Prores. (So only useful for Final Cut users).

This surely must provide advantages for improved resolution, color correction and chroma-keying compared to taking the HDV or XDCAM footage and either editing directly or converting to Prores first b4 editing?

Frankly I find it hard to believe that a 2.5" drive is going to be able to capture uncompressed video as the Ninja purports to do!

Seth Bloombaum · September 13th, 2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherif Choudhry

...it could take the uncompressed output before HDV compression and convert to Apple Prores. (So only useful for Final Cut users).

This surely must provide advantages for improved resolution, color correction and chroma-keying compared to taking the HDV or XDCAM footage and either editing directly or converting to Prores first b4 editing?

Frankly I find it hard to believe that a 2.5" drive is going to be able to capture uncompressed video as the Ninja purports to do!

I've not worked through this myself, but I understand that Vegas Pro can edit ProRes (possibly limited to 422?), this is a recent development enabled by Apple's recent QT releases for windows including a Prores decoder (no encoder).

If the Ninja works as advertised, yes, it should be far superior to HDV and XDCAM EX for keying and grading, really any efx work. I've got a lot of chromakeying coming up, would love to get into a 4:2:2 codec for shooting.

I'd think that transcoding HDV to Prores422 or HQ helps with multiple generations of efx and grading, but the chroma information has already been crunched, and there wouldn't be much improvement to chromakeying. Even where transcoding helps, it's not going to add chroma resolution, it's just not going to degrade as badly.

Anybody see the Ninja at NAB or IBC?

Ron Little · September 14th, 2010, 08:09 AM

I have two V1s with a Nanoflash. I bought the NF to extend the life of my V1s. I really wanted to work with higher quality footage but I could not decide which new camera I wanted to buy. Then Canon came out with the new camera that records to mpeg 2 at 50 mbs. Well that is where the NF starts and the quality settings go up from there. So that really pushed me toward the NF.

I will up grade my camera when I find the right one and even then I will probably record to the NF.

The quality upgrade from HDV is beautiful. I liked the V1 when it was HDV but now I have a reason to hold on to it. I can shoot great footage while I look at the new cams coming out.

I do not know anything about the Ninja, but the concept is the same. I do know I do not trust Ninjas they are sneaky.

Simon Spear · September 15th, 2010, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Little

I have two V1s with a Nanoflash. I bought the NF to extend the life of my V1s. I really wanted to work with higher quality footage but I could not decide which new camera I wanted to buy. Then Canon came out with the new camera that records to mpeg 2 at 50 mbs. Well that is where the NF starts and the quality settings go up from there. So that really pushed me toward the NF.

I will up grade my camera when I find the right one and even then I will probably record to the NF.

The quality upgrade from HDV is beautiful. I liked the V1 when it was HDV but now I have a reason to hold on to it. I can shoot great footage while I look at the new cams coming out.

I do not know anything about the Ninja, but the concept is the same. I do know I do not trust Ninjas they are sneaky.

Hi Ron

I've agonised over purchasing a Nano for awhile now. Did it improve the quality of the footage captured from the V1 dramatically enough to justify buying it? I mean selling the V1 + cost of a Nano is not that much different than just buying an EX1.

Ron Little · September 15th, 2010, 07:35 PM

Simon, I was using the same thought process. I tried to sell both my V1s with no luck. No one even made an offer.

I know that when I get an EX or what ever I get I will probably still want to use the Nanoflash nothing else records to such a high bit rate. I just bought the Nano first.

And yes the video is better but you still need to light if it is a low light situation. But for low light and shallow depth of field I have a Canon 7d.

Andrew Smith · September 16th, 2010, 06:27 AM

Ron, if you need to sell the V1s then talk with people who shoot video of sports matches. They'd much rather have 20x optical zoom than settle for 12x only with the EX1 etc models.

Andrew

Sherif Choudhry · November 20th, 2010, 04:49 PM

The latest web gossip seems to indicate the Ninja may be out during December. Here are 2 posts

Atomos Ninja Compression Workflow & Benefits- 6 to 1 Compression: | Cinescopophilia

Atmos Ninja

For a specific segment of customers (HDV or AVCHD or DSLR with HDMI out and who dont have budget for Nano or KiPro prices, and use Prores) this product is surely a godsend for us V1 users? And so much SMALLER than the Nano or KiPro.

Andrew Smith · November 21st, 2010, 12:22 AM

And it uses the standard Sony camera batteries, too.

Andrew

September 11th, 2010, 06:14 PM	#2
Victor Wilcox Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Iron Horse Guest Ranch, Waller County, TX Posts: 340	The HDMI out from the V1U is 4:2:2 uncompress HD. I think it's 1920x1080, but can't find a reference to confirm that. It's at lease 1440x1080. __________________ Vic Wilcox, http://wilcoxvideoproductions.com/Default.aspx Sony FDR-AX100, DJI Phantom 4 Pro, GoPro Hero 8 Blk, Vegas Pro 15, DaVinci Resolve 18

September 13th, 2010, 08:07 AM	#4
Simon Spear Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 34	Has anyone on here actually seen and worked with uncompressed footage from the V1? I too am interested in extending the lifecycle of my V1, but I don't want to start grasping at straws and hoping for miracles. I mean it is not going to turn it into an EX1 or anything like that is it!? Cheers, Simon __________________ View from the Blue Spear FILMS

November 20th, 2010, 04:49 PM	#11
Sherif Choudhry Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London Posts: 222	update on ninja The latest web gossip seems to indicate the Ninja may be out during December. Here are 2 posts Atomos Ninja Compression Workflow & Benefits- 6 to 1 Compression: \| Cinescopophilia Atmos Ninja For a specific segment of customers (HDV or AVCHD or DSLR with HDMI out and who dont have budget for Nano or KiPro prices, and use Prores) this product is surely a godsend for us V1 users? And so much SMALLER than the Nano or KiPro.

September 12th, 2010, 05:12 AM	#3
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,068	I can confirm that the V1U HDMI port outputs a full resolution signal directly from the sensor block, before the content would pass through the compression stages for writing to tape as HDV. On that basis, you will have the full 1080 resolution. Andrew

September 13th, 2010, 01:54 PM	#5
Sherif Choudhry Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London Posts: 222	Well the EX1 has many additional factors that contribute to excellent footage, eg, focusing is easier, probably a better lens resolution, better compression scheme etc But even EX1 footage is compressed, though not as bad as HDV! That's why the ninja is exciting because it could take the uncompressed output before HDV compression and convert to Apple Prores. (So only useful for Final Cut users). This surely must provide advantages for improved resolution, color correction and chroma-keying compared to taking the HDV or XDCAM footage and either editing directly or converting to Prores first b4 editing? Frankly I find it hard to believe that a 2.5" drive is going to be able to capture uncompressed video as the Ninja purports to do!

September 14th, 2010, 08:09 AM	#7
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	I have two V1s with a Nanoflash. I bought the NF to extend the life of my V1s. I really wanted to work with higher quality footage but I could not decide which new camera I wanted to buy. Then Canon came out with the new camera that records to mpeg 2 at 50 mbs. Well that is where the NF starts and the quality settings go up from there. So that really pushed me toward the NF. I will up grade my camera when I find the right one and even then I will probably record to the NF. The quality upgrade from HDV is beautiful. I liked the V1 when it was HDV but now I have a reason to hold on to it. I can shoot great footage while I look at the new cams coming out. I do not know anything about the Ninja, but the concept is the same. I do know I do not trust Ninjas they are sneaky.

September 15th, 2010, 07:35 PM	#9
Ron Little Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pensacola Fl. Posts: 627	Simon, I was using the same thought process. I tried to sell both my V1s with no luck. No one even made an offer. I know that when I get an EX or what ever I get I will probably still want to use the Nanoflash nothing else records to such a high bit rate. I just bought the Nano first. And yes the video is better but you still need to light if it is a low light situation. But for low light and shallow depth of field I have a Canon 7d.

September 16th, 2010, 06:27 AM	#10
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,068	Ron, if you need to sell the V1s then talk with people who shoot video of sports matches. They'd much rather have 20x optical zoom than settle for 12x only with the EX1 etc models. Andrew

November 21st, 2010, 12:22 AM	#12
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,068	And it uses the standard Sony camera batteries, too. Andrew