What settings for the mountains out west?

[Terry Jacob]

I dont have any info but all I can say is that yellowstone is amazing. The Grand Tetons even more amazing. Im 16 now, so about three years ago when I was 13. My family and I took a road trip out to Jackson Hole, Wyoming to visit cousins. Went went to Yellowstone. And so far every christmas we have gone there to ski. It is amazing. Breath taking views, the wildlife, every aspect of it is amazing. Good luck and have tons of fun.

[Mike Burgess]

Thanks Terry. I have been there three previous times, so I know what you are talking about. Really looking forward to giving my camcorders a good workout there.

Mike

[Terry Jacob]

Hi again, when you get back form your trip can you post the video on here. I would love to see it. thxs

[Mike Burgess]

Originally Posted by Terry Jacob

Hi again, when you get back form your trip can you post the video on here. I would love to see it. thxs

Not sure how to do that, having never even given thought to that. Also, between my two HD cams, I will have hours of unedited footage. But if I can ever figure it out, I will put some samples out.

I plan on getting as much as I can of quality HD footage, in the event that I may not ever be able to get out there again. I will have two HD cams (SR11 and FX7), two good tripods, several extra batteries, lots of tapes, extra lenses, and sunscreen and bug juice. I love that area and the thought that this might be my last time, is very disheartening. But I want to at least have five to seven fantastic hours of carefully edited HD viewing on my plasma to help dull the pain of not actually being out there any more. Hence the HD cams. Believe me, this is definately a labor of love. That is why I will be spending extra time out there this trip, so as to take my time and get as much as possible, with the familiar sights and the not so familiar ones. The FX7 will be for shorter hikes, wide panoramic shots, etc., while the SR11 will be for the longer hikes. Between myself and my wife, I hope to come home with ten to twelve unedited hours of footage. One week to wait and then I am off. Can hardly wait. Even have my cowboy boots and hat ready to go.

[Stephan Stryhanyn]

10-12 hrs raw footage for 5-7 edited?!? The ratio seems odd to me. Take more spare tapes, they are so cheap and you never have enough - esp. in the middle of beautiful WY. Better have too many than be sorry.

[Adam Gold]

Stephan's absolutely right. Plan on about a 10:1 ratio of unedited to good edited footage. Shooting only 12 hours will be unlikely to give you more than about an hour of good edited (non-boring) footage. So either shoot more or plan on having less finished product.

Otherwise, your philosophy is dead on. Better to bank extra footage now and spend time editing later.

[Stephan Stryhanyn]

5-7 minutes of finished footage per 60-min tape is also what I experienced. That's based on live shots of 12-30 secs each, resulting in 4-10 second segments on the editing timeline. Up to 1 tape per day esp. if you're lucky enough to travel the scenic byways, although I found the geyser basin near Old Faithful to be esp. taxing.

[Leslie Wand]

wow! 10:1.....

for corporates i find i usually shoot 3:1, doco's around 5:1 on scripted / briefed parts - there's usually a lot of extra cutaway, overlay stuff shot when time permits.....

i would think it both a luxury and a pita shooting 10:1 - it would seem to be shooting blind? in other words, not composing or thinking about what you need (or see) before shooting.

[Stephan Stryhanyn]

Not the same situation, purposes, or constraints here.

[Mike Burgess]

I find the suggested ratios also surprising. But then, I am basing my projections on my previous experience of shooting railroads. Over the past several years, I have found my ratio to be almost 3 or 2 to 1, with it getting better and better as time goes by. That is undoubtedly due to; 1) I am getting better at planning and picking my shots, 2) I have gained more experience and have a better knowledge shooting and working with my chosen subject. So given that, the advice for a ratio of 3, 4 or 5 to 1 seems appropriate. However, 10 to 1 does seem excessive to me. I could be wrong (and may very well be).

Given that I have been to the area three times before, and I have already shot video of some areas with my old equipment, I am hoping that some of the unknowns have been reduced. Also, I am somewhat of a perfectionist (aka "anal"), in that I do take the time to think things through, map out my shots, account for lighting, etc. And yes, I am fully aware of all the unknowns and the unforeseens that can occur in nature; rain, clouds, wind, insects, uncooperative wildlife, my own glitches, possible accidents, and of course, rude tourists.

I am also a realist and know that I should indeed plan for all possibilities and that two or three or more shots of the same subject is well within the bounds of common sense and practice. Therefore, I will take your advice and purchase more tape (from ten to fifteen) in the event that I will find that 10 to 1 is closer to being necessary. Remember that my second cam is an SR11 that will capture up to 7 hours of additional footage.

I do appreciate all the responses from all of you, and do take it all seriously. After all, as I am constantly reminded by my wife, I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING.

Mike

[Adam Gold]

Originally Posted by Leslie Wand

in other words, not composing or thinking about what you need (or see) before shooting.

Wow, aside from that being incredibly insulting, it is in fact the result of MORE planning, thought, professionalism and care -- and the knowledge that comes from experience of knowing you must cover yourself sixteen ways from Sunday to assure good footage once you are in your edit bay thousands of miles and many months away from your production location.

Not to get off on a rant here, but this is what distinguishes those who shoot like tourists from those who shoot (and edit) like professionals. Tourists wave the cam aimlessly about and include every frame of footage in their final projects; this is why their friends stop coming over.

The hard part about editing is not figuring what to include, but what to leave out. When we do sports, our shooting ratio is closer to 100:1, and for reality shows like "Survivor" I know for a fact it is similar -- how else could they condense three days, with 18 people to cover with 10 crews, into 44 minutes of show? When I'm traveling, every object I shoot gets a close, medium and wide shot; zooming in and zooming out, both slow and fast; and panning right and left and tilting up and down. Maybe we'll pull focus as well. And each of these needs to be no less than 10 seconds in duration. And this further assumes that no one walks in front of the camera while I'm shooting (sound is rarely an issue), and that every move is perfect and doesn't need to be done again, and that focus and exposure are perfect in every case (as they usually are, because I've learned the hard way that my cameras are smarter than I am and it never pays to try to out-think them).

You can certainly have a vision of what you think your video will be like before you leave the house, but in documentary work, you never know what you're going to have until you begin reviewing your footage on the PC, when it is too late to go back for re-shoots.

[Mike Burgess]

Wow, I guess I am not as good as I thought I was. The final proof will be in the pudding when I get back. Fortunately, this production will not be for anyone but me. And while I will be very picky and fussy in my edit bay, there will be no critics but me. BUT, I am getting extra tape, as suggested.

Thanks again to all who have responded with your suggestions. I do take them all seriously and do tend to follow good advice.

Lets see now, is there anything I have forgotten?

Mike

[Stephan Stryhanyn]

Originally Posted by Adam Gold

When I'm traveling, [...]

These are all the very reasons I meant. In addition, the dear ones who accompany the travelling videographer like to believe (oddly enough) that they live in an unscripted, uncontrolled world ("having a nice time" did we figure they call it? ;-) which may require a bit of flexibility rather than scripting one's way around.

The audience seems to be dual - the videographer tends to like watching what he/she most dearly planned for, whereas the travelling party seems to prefer watching those unexpected events they brought back as their most vivid memories maybe?

[Mike Burgess]

Well, I leave tomorrow. My only real concern, after procurring extra tapes, is what the weather will be. Can't control or do anything about that. If Yellowstone blows up, I'll have great video of it (ignoring the fact that it would not survive the blast).
See ya all in three weeks.

Mike