B cam for FX7?

[James Strange]

hi guys, jnust recently found this forum, how did I live without it!

I used to shoot with a PD150 or a VX200 as my A camera, and a Sony TRV 950 (which is a 3CCD, and from what I read its the same chip/sendor as the VX2000) as my B camera. The footage mathced perfectly!

Last year I bought an FX7 and now use that as my A camera, i mainly shoot in SD but will be shooting HD as standard very soon so I need to replace my TRV 950.

So does anyone have a suggestion for a B camera to use with my (A cam) FX7?

I may upgrade the FX7 to the Z7 or the new Z5 thats coming out, but i still need an HVD B camera (the smaller the better, i.e similar size to TRV 950, not as big as the fx7 as I run and gun and need by B camera to be as small as pos)

thanks

James

[Stephan Stryhanyn]

Very interesting question, but it's a tough one as the FX7 is Sony's smallest 3-CMOS. You won't find another, smaller cam with the same 3 x 1/4-inch. My best bet would have been the HDR-HC7, another tilted ClearVid CMOS of the same generation (no 'Exmor') so you can hope for similar texture maybe, but it's a single sensor.

I have the HC3, never tried to match them side by side on the same session but I feel PQ really looks quite different when you know what to look for: more precise picture, better color separation in details with the FX7, higher dynamic range. But there's still similarity in the texture, so all is not lost.

Now only the HC9 is available for sale, and I read it has quite improved on the older HC3 like the HC7, so it's the next best bet (single ClearVid CMOS again). Apart from matching colors through custom picture profiles (desaturate the HC) + maybe reduce sharpness on the FX7, I'd expect significant tonal correction in post to try & match contrast. Depends on how picky you are. No perfect match any more, I guess.

Hope others can complement or correct.

[Antonie Koen]

I am also currently looking at purchasing a B-cam to go with my V1 and also for holiday trips. An obvious choice for me was the hc9 which can also be used as a tape deck but lately a few avchd camcorders have caught my attention, namely the Sony sr11 and Canon hf10. A big draw card for me here is the convenience of going tapeless.

Has anybody tried to match the sr11 or canon hf10 to the V1 and how do they compare? Am I way off course here, wanting to use these tapeless cameras with my V1?

[Dave Blackhurst]

I can speak to comparing a CX7 (HC7/9 sensor section, but tweaked and tapeless) with an SR11 - they are pretty close, with a bit better image quality from the SR11, better lattitude, detail, and smoothness in fine gradient color areas. It's subtle, I switched back and forth between footage shot with both cameras side by side, and eventually concluded the SR11 was a tad better.

I should think that one of the tapeless cams would match the FX7 and V1U rather well overall. Haven't had the time to sit down and shoot FX7 and SR11/CX12 side by side, but shouldn't be too hard to match - a multicam shoot with CX7 and SR11 was so close as to not justify anything other than minor color correction.

An earlier shoot with FX7 and HC7 multicam, they were pretty close, the HC7 had more trouble keeping up with the FX7, not as smooth and more noise, something the latest SR11/CX12 would eliminate for the most part. If tapeless is an option (or a temptation <wink>), you could do far worse than the SR11/12, or CX12 if you want a pocket cam (any smaller and you'd probably lose it!). SR has generally better I/O options, for just a tad more size and weight, but the CX12 is pretty cool, and again adds a couple tweaks as it came out several months later.

Several posts around the forum from people with both FX7 and SR11 lean towardes the SR being the better image quality... remember you give up almost all manual control though! Auto seems to be pretty accurate almost all the time, and there are ways to tweak the settings a bit if needed, I feel like the camera makes a decision better than I would if I were fiddling with contols... but I do pull the AE back a bit, typical of Sony cams anyway!

If tape is the choice, go with the HC9. While Canon looks good, it's a different "look", and I didn't have much luck "matching" footage, but I'm still a klutz when color correcting, so you can discount that a bit if the Canon is calling!

[Antonie Koen]

Thanks Dave. I am extremely tempted to go with the tapeless camcorder but cant make up my mind whether or not I should get a camera (HC9) that can serve as a tape deck as well.

The cx12 looks like a great cam but the lack of headphone and mic jack eliminates this cam from my short list. Which leaves me with the sr11,hf10 and the hc9.

HF10 = more manual control with flash memory (no moving parts) but no zebras. hf10 has mic and headphone jack

SR11 = I lose manual control but have 60gb hdd which translates into long recording times. Also, have mic and headphone jack, zebras, viewfinder,etc. hdd has moving parts and risk of hdd damage is something to take into consideration.

HC9 = Meets all my requirements but the idea of tape rather irritates me at the moment. Can be used as a tape deck for my V1 but this is not a critical requirement.

Looking at the tapeless cams, I am going to have to weigh up the loss of features with the inconvenience of tape.

Decisions Decisions!

How much footage can fit onto the sr11's hdd at the highest quality setting?

[Dave Blackhurst]

Yeah, the lack of I/O is the one thing on the CX12 that's a bad side effect of the small size... then again there's the small size... and smile shutter... and a couple other things that are cool...

One advantage of the CX/SR is if you are using one of the Sony underwater shells, they both can be made to fit and work fine with the external controls (seem to remember you were using that?). Tight fit with the SR, but aside from being a bit hard to see the whole screen, it fits!

For me, I just wasn't that thrilled with the HV20 I tried, so I haven't laid hands on any of the Canon HF's though I like the features. May have to check one out in detail one of these times, but I've got so many accessories for Sony that a switch would get expensive, and I wouldn't have everything I do now, so Sony it is unless something truly compelling comes along...

SR11 should record about 450 minutes by my rough calculations, plus you can use the MS Duo slot to record on too, your choice. The HDD is pretty snug in the chassis, but you could run across a HDD failure, so I wouldn't use it as "portable storage", I'd shoot and downlosd as soon as practicable, so you have footage backed up (but then again I try to maintain triple redundant backup in most cases). Manual control is somewhat limited, but usable in most situations. I think if you put the video next to the HC9, at least under some of the more difficult shooting situations (low light, subtle color gradients), you'd choose the SR.

HC9 is a great little camera, no doubt (I've owned a couple along the way), but ultimately the thought of going back to tape workflow was a bit too much. For what I want, tapeless wasn't a difficult jump and has proven far easier than I expected. I just wish for a tapeless FX7... in vain...

[Martyn Hull]

Dont forget the SR 12 will record almost 15 hours with on best quality but for most the SR 11s recording time is adequate,for me the better match is my HC-1 with my FX-7,my SR12 gives me a different look far more naturaly looking more vibrant greens without being garish is the most difference.

[James Strange]

Thanks for the input guys, has anyone ever used an A1 as a B-Cam along side a Z1/FX1/FX7?

How goes it match up?

Thanks

James

[Martyn Hull]

The A1 and HC-1 are the same cams vdeo wise,my FX-7 gives a little sharper picture but as both cams have resolution settings they could be adjusted to match,colour match is close on mine but the FX-7 is best on auto the HC-1 on manual.