Still no FCP OR Sony Update for M2T Files?!?! at DVinfo.net

Adam Cook · January 9th, 2008, 02:12 AM

What gives? I'm about to start posting a HUGE project in Final Cut (6.0.2) and there's still no update that lets you edit M2T files in FCP recorded from the Sony DR-60 Hard Drive. I really am backed against the wall here since there is TONS of footage from 3 months in studio with a band. The MPEG Streamclip option is there, but due to the shear volume of material, this will add weeks to the edit. Any suggestions/updates/workarounds?

If I have to use MPEG Streamclip, what are the optimal setting for taking Sony V1U 1080/24P clips and downconverting to 720P? Should I use Prores422?
This footage is being combined with Panasonic HVX-200 720/24P(Native) footage. Will that present a problem in Final Cut since the HVX footage is native?

Thanks,
Adam

Mikko Lopponen · January 9th, 2008, 03:20 AM

How are the files stored on the hard drive? If they are m2t files can't they just be imported into fcp?

Adam Cook · January 9th, 2008, 01:26 PM

Unfortunately, FCP doesn't let you import them. It's a format that FCP does not recognize.

Edwin Wilson · January 9th, 2008, 05:52 PM

I, too, have been looking everywhere I can think of and coming up dry. Streamclip works but I shouldn't have to go that route. I've had no luck putting the DR-60 in video mode and ingesting the video like it was a deck. All we lack is that one little, itty bitty plugin from Sony...

Max Volki · January 9th, 2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Cook

Unfortunately, FCP doesn't let you import them. It's a format that FCP does not recognize.

Adam

I use a V1E (PAL) with DR-60 in Cache-Modus and Avid Liquid 7.2

On the tape are m2v-files and on DR-60 m2T-files
I usually transfer all files from the DR-60 in a new directory on my system. Then I select all HDRxxxxx2.m2t files and put them in a sub directory.
So I leave the cache-files wit HDRxxxxx1.m2t and all the help files in the main directory. Now I can import all m2t files, and only them, in my Liquid-rack.

You say FCP can’t import m2T files. Have you tried to change the last letter T to V?
If this workaround works, it is easy to change all T’s to V’s

volki

Adam Cook · January 10th, 2008, 03:06 AM

Interesting workaround. I'll have to give that a try. This is so exasperating!

I've been a PC guy for years, and am just now, finally, about to give up the ghost and buy a new Macbook Pro. Trust me, I'm going kicking and screaming, but everyone else in my company is on FCP and I am the last holdover. At least I can use Premiere Pro on the PC side using bootcamp!

I just wish Sony and Apple would bury the hatchet on this issue for the good of all editors stuck in this quandry! It makes them both looks so foolish.

The DR-60, while not super mainstream, is a very effective capture tool and FCP is a good NLE. Why aren't they playing nice?

We use Firestores with our HVX200's, and after the shoot I was on this past weekend, I'll never use one again when I need a silent set! Who designed the fans on those wretched things? All of my audio needs severe tweaking now that we got all the footage back and the fans are so prominent in the background!

Seth Bloombaum · January 10th, 2008, 11:40 AM

IMHO it's up to Apple or any other NLE manufacturer to include import/use of the latest video data types. Sony can't do anything about it, I think.

I'm not sure it's about "burying the hatchet". Apple has taken their time with every new video data type in recent memory. I have no insider info about this, just recall that Apple was the last (by many months) of the major NLE manufacturers to accomodate HDV - and this was a standard not only of Sony's but numerous other manufacturers.

FWIW.

Is it possible that Cineform capture is now working on the Mac? I've not kept up with this, but it is a possible workaround.

Have you searched the DR60 subforum?

John Greco · January 10th, 2008, 09:55 PM

Adam:

Did Mpeg Streamclip work for you?

Adam Cook · January 14th, 2008, 02:17 AM

I have used MPEG Streamclip, yes. But after careful review, we've decided to purchase a Blackmagic Intensity Pro card to capture everything (the M2T files) via the HDMI out on my V1. Then we'll have everything in FCP in ProRes422. Hopefully that format will mesh well with the significant amount of DVCproHD footage we have, as well as the ntsc60i and DVX100 24p material.

When the card arrives on Tuesday, I plan on basically transferring M2Ts back to the DR-60 in approx 60gb batches.

I'm still a tad confused how exactly FCP handles timelines with mixed resolutions. I come from the PC/Premiere Pro world and all the nuances of FCP still make my head swirl sometimes. We burned some test dvds the other day of a short timeline in FCP with mixed footage: 720/24P (from firestore/non-native mode) , 720/24P (firestore/NATIVE), and V1U 1080/24P(29.97 embedded) which was down-converted via a Sony M25U HDV deck to NTSC-DV.

I'm still concerned that FCP will choke when we now take that 1080 footage from the V1U and keep it HD instead of doing the NTSC-DV downconvert. How does FCP handle mixing these different codecs (DVCPROHD and Prores422)?

Also, as far as Cineform goes, I have AspectHD for the PC/Premiere. Do they make a version for Final Cut?

Bob Grant · January 14th, 2008, 02:45 AM

I'm not a FCP user but there's one problem you need to watchout for with mixed media on a FCP timeline. FCP will not do multicam unless all the media is the same on the timeline I've been told.

As for the general question of why doesn't FCP handle m2t files. I feel there's a bigger question here. Why are we stuck with every HDD recording device either video or audio using FAT32? It's a real pain and a source of much grief to the engineers designing these things when a recording has to be split across files. I've asked this question of several vendors and the stock reply is because it's the only format that Macs and PCs can read.

All I can say is if Apple doesn't want to play ball and write the code so OSX can mount a NTFS volume then OK, lets use HFS for everything. The tool to enable Windows to mount HFS volumes isn't expensive and as a PC user I'd gladly pay the asking price just to be rid of FAT32.

Nate Weaver · January 14th, 2008, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Grant

All I can say is if Apple doesn't want to play ball and write the code so OSX can mount a NTFS volume then OK, lets use HFS for everything. The tool to enable Windows to mount HFS volumes isn't expensive and as a PC user I'd gladly pay the asking price just to be rid of FAT32.

OS X Reads and writes FAT32. It can read-only NTFS.

Mikko Lopponen · January 15th, 2008, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Grant

As for the general question of why doesn't FCP handle m2t files.

Adobe Premiere doesn't have any problems with mpeg files. Even if you rename those m2t files to mpg and import them into final cut pro, you will run into some weird problems sooner or later.

Jason Boyette · January 15th, 2008, 07:10 AM

Try this
Plug in the DR-60, turn it to Video mode, not computer mode
Open FCP
Open capture now window
Press play on the dr-60
press capture now on FCP

I tried this the other day and it worked, give it a shot

You are kinda tricking FCP into seeing the harddrive as like a VCR!

Hope this helps

Edwin Wilson · January 15th, 2008, 08:10 PM

I've been letting capture now start the dr60 (if I'm lucky, that is) or pressing play after capture now... I'll try it this way and see what happens.

Adam Cook · January 17th, 2008, 07:04 PM

This was a post I left in the actual DR-60 section of this forum:

Here's an interesting scenario I've now been thrown into:

I recently recorded a band in studio for 3 months while they worked on their new record. I did the dual-recording mode for the first 2 months, using tapes and the DR-60. After seeing how well the DR-60 was keeping up with the shoot, I decided to stop using tapes entirely. Seemed like a great idea at the time.

Well, now here I am. I've been setting up how I was going to edit this project for a week now. I'm using Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 on a "8 core" MacPro. As most of us already know, FCP hates dealing with M2T files. More specifically, FCP hates the Sony DR-60 drive. Numerous people have posted in these forums about using the MPEG Streamclip workflow to get the M2Ts into a codec the FCP likes to work with. I tried that. There's just WAYYYYY too much footage here from 3 months of shooting to go through that.

So I found what I though was a terrific compromise: Take the tapes I do have (from the first 2/3 of the project) and play those in my Sony M25U HDV deck out via HDMI into my new Intensity Pro card. Then I can transcode/downconvert those in real time to DVCPRO (or Prores 422). I call this a compromise because, while doing this gets me the footage ingested quicker, it also cuts out one of the major advantqages of recording to the DR-60 in the first place: The Cache Record function!
Knowing all those extra 14 second tidbits aren't making their way into the final source material sucks, but that's the trade off as far as using the tapes is concerned.
Step 2 now involves getting the remaining 1/3 of M2T files ingested. Looks like I'll have to use MPEG Streamclip afterall. I thought (WRONGLY) that I'd now be able to take all my archived M2Ts and place them back onto the DR-60 (using the same folder structure the drive used in the first place) to play them back through my V1U via HDMI. THIS DOES NOT WORK FOR SOME REASON. SONY???? WTF???

Anyone that has any thoughts and/or suggestions, please feel free to add to this thread.

For the record, my old PC workflow worked wonders:
I was using Premiere Pro 2.0 with Cineform Aspect HD.

January 9th, 2008, 02:12 AM	#1
Adam Cook New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 14	Still no FCP OR Sony Update for M2T Files?!?! What gives? I'm about to start posting a HUGE project in Final Cut (6.0.2) and there's still no update that lets you edit M2T files in FCP recorded from the Sony DR-60 Hard Drive. I really am backed against the wall here since there is TONS of footage from 3 months in studio with a band. The MPEG Streamclip option is there, but due to the shear volume of material, this will add weeks to the edit. Any suggestions/updates/workarounds? If I have to use MPEG Streamclip, what are the optimal setting for taking Sony V1U 1080/24P clips and downconverting to 720P? Should I use Prores422? This footage is being combined with Panasonic HVX-200 720/24P(Native) footage. Will that present a problem in Final Cut since the HVX footage is native? Thanks, Adam

January 9th, 2008, 01:26 PM	#3
Adam Cook New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 14	Nope Unfortunately, FCP doesn't let you import them. It's a format that FCP does not recognize.

January 10th, 2008, 03:06 AM	#6
Adam Cook New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 14	Thanks Interesting workaround. I'll have to give that a try. This is so exasperating! I've been a PC guy for years, and am just now, finally, about to give up the ghost and buy a new Macbook Pro. Trust me, I'm going kicking and screaming, but everyone else in my company is on FCP and I am the last holdover. At least I can use Premiere Pro on the PC side using bootcamp! I just wish Sony and Apple would bury the hatchet on this issue for the good of all editors stuck in this quandry! It makes them both looks so foolish. The DR-60, while not super mainstream, is a very effective capture tool and FCP is a good NLE. Why aren't they playing nice? We use Firestores with our HVX200's, and after the shoot I was on this past weekend, I'll never use one again when I need a silent set! Who designed the fans on those wretched things? All of my audio needs severe tweaking now that we got all the footage back and the fans are so prominent in the background!

January 14th, 2008, 02:17 AM	#9
Adam Cook New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 14	Still working out the kinks I have used MPEG Streamclip, yes. But after careful review, we've decided to purchase a Blackmagic Intensity Pro card to capture everything (the M2T files) via the HDMI out on my V1. Then we'll have everything in FCP in ProRes422. Hopefully that format will mesh well with the significant amount of DVCproHD footage we have, as well as the ntsc60i and DVX100 24p material. When the card arrives on Tuesday, I plan on basically transferring M2Ts back to the DR-60 in approx 60gb batches. I'm still a tad confused how exactly FCP handles timelines with mixed resolutions. I come from the PC/Premiere Pro world and all the nuances of FCP still make my head swirl sometimes. We burned some test dvds the other day of a short timeline in FCP with mixed footage: 720/24P (from firestore/non-native mode) , 720/24P (firestore/NATIVE), and V1U 1080/24P(29.97 embedded) which was down-converted via a Sony M25U HDV deck to NTSC-DV. I'm still concerned that FCP will choke when we now take that 1080 footage from the V1U and keep it HD instead of doing the NTSC-DV downconvert. How does FCP handle mixing these different codecs (DVCPROHD and Prores422)? Also, as far as Cineform goes, I have AspectHD for the PC/Premiere. Do they make a version for Final Cut?

January 17th, 2008, 07:04 PM	#15
Adam Cook New Boot Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 14	Transferring old M2Ts back onto DR-60 for HDMI playback? This was a post I left in the actual DR-60 section of this forum: Here's an interesting scenario I've now been thrown into: I recently recorded a band in studio for 3 months while they worked on their new record. I did the dual-recording mode for the first 2 months, using tapes and the DR-60. After seeing how well the DR-60 was keeping up with the shoot, I decided to stop using tapes entirely. Seemed like a great idea at the time. Well, now here I am. I've been setting up how I was going to edit this project for a week now. I'm using Final Cut Pro 6.0.2 on a "8 core" MacPro. As most of us already know, FCP hates dealing with M2T files. More specifically, FCP hates the Sony DR-60 drive. Numerous people have posted in these forums about using the MPEG Streamclip workflow to get the M2Ts into a codec the FCP likes to work with. I tried that. There's just WAYYYYY too much footage here from 3 months of shooting to go through that. So I found what I though was a terrific compromise: Take the tapes I do have (from the first 2/3 of the project) and play those in my Sony M25U HDV deck out via HDMI into my new Intensity Pro card. Then I can transcode/downconvert those in real time to DVCPRO (or Prores 422). I call this a compromise because, while doing this gets me the footage ingested quicker, it also cuts out one of the major advantqages of recording to the DR-60 in the first place: The Cache Record function! Knowing all those extra 14 second tidbits aren't making their way into the final source material sucks, but that's the trade off as far as using the tapes is concerned. Step 2 now involves getting the remaining 1/3 of M2T files ingested. Looks like I'll have to use MPEG Streamclip afterall. I thought (WRONGLY) that I'd now be able to take all my archived M2Ts and place them back onto the DR-60 (using the same folder structure the drive used in the first place) to play them back through my V1U via HDMI. THIS DOES NOT WORK FOR SOME REASON. SONY???? WTF??? Anyone that has any thoughts and/or suggestions, please feel free to add to this thread. For the record, my old PC workflow worked wonders: I was using Premiere Pro 2.0 with Cineform Aspect HD.

January 9th, 2008, 03:20 AM	#2
Mikko Lopponen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 393	How are the files stored on the hard drive? If they are m2t files can't they just be imported into fcp?

January 9th, 2008, 05:52 PM	#4
Edwin Wilson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Braselton, GA Posts: 25	I, too, have been looking everywhere I can think of and coming up dry. Streamclip works but I shouldn't have to go that route. I've had no luck putting the DR-60 in video mode and ingesting the video like it was a deck. All we lack is that one little, itty bitty plugin from Sony...

January 10th, 2008, 11:40 AM	#7
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	IMHO it's up to Apple or any other NLE manufacturer to include import/use of the latest video data types. Sony can't do anything about it, I think. I'm not sure it's about "burying the hatchet". Apple has taken their time with every new video data type in recent memory. I have no insider info about this, just recall that Apple was the last (by many months) of the major NLE manufacturers to accomodate HDV - and this was a standard not only of Sony's but numerous other manufacturers. FWIW. Is it possible that Cineform capture is now working on the Mac? I've not kept up with this, but it is a possible workaround. Have you searched the DR60 subforum?

January 10th, 2008, 09:55 PM	#8
John Greco New Boot Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Palm Beach, FL Posts: 23	Adam: Did Mpeg Streamclip work for you?

January 14th, 2008, 02:45 AM	#10
Bob Grant Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,570	I'm not a FCP user but there's one problem you need to watchout for with mixed media on a FCP timeline. FCP will not do multicam unless all the media is the same on the timeline I've been told. As for the general question of why doesn't FCP handle m2t files. I feel there's a bigger question here. Why are we stuck with every HDD recording device either video or audio using FAT32? It's a real pain and a source of much grief to the engineers designing these things when a recording has to be split across files. I've asked this question of several vendors and the stock reply is because it's the only format that Macs and PCs can read. All I can say is if Apple doesn't want to play ball and write the code so OSX can mount a NTFS volume then OK, lets use HFS for everything. The tool to enable Windows to mount HFS volumes isn't expensive and as a PC user I'd gladly pay the asking price just to be rid of FAT32.

January 15th, 2008, 07:10 AM	#13
Jason Boyette Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Garner, NC Posts: 145	Try this Plug in the DR-60, turn it to Video mode, not computer mode Open FCP Open capture now window Press play on the dr-60 press capture now on FCP I tried this the other day and it worked, give it a shot You are kinda tricking FCP into seeing the harddrive as like a VCR! Hope this helps

January 15th, 2008, 08:10 PM	#14
Edwin Wilson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Braselton, GA Posts: 25	I've been letting capture now start the dr60 (if I'm lucky, that is) or pressing play after capture now... I'll try it this way and see what happens.