V1 Limitations

[Joel Chappell]

Originally Posted by Leslie Wand

joel, exactly what do you want it for? i'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread, which i read, but haven't the time to reread.

if you're doing something like weddings, then the simplest option is to hire one, shoot a wedding, and ditto the alternative cameras, then edit with your nle and compare end results.

if you do more varied work, then there's a whole raft of considerations that come into play....

i started by thinking i wanted the z1 - but after hiring one found it too heavy and cumbersome for my style of camera-work (having used a pd170 previously). i then looked at the canon a1, but immediately discounted it due pretty much to the fact i have relatively small hands and operating the rocker was really uncomfortable, and that its build quality, at least on the one i tried out, seem a bit poor. i hired a v1 and, considering the alternatives, opted for it.

i HATE the locked levels on one mic input, such a bloody stupid decision sony made, and as mentioned, ois can be annoying if i forget to switch it off when shooting on legs, otherwise, i'm very happy.

if you have specific questions, i'm sure those here will be only too happy to answer...

leslie

I shoot documentary style interviews, commercials and shorts for a church here in Jacksonville. Additionally I record live events with multi camera shoots at least twice a week.

I record live events uncompressed straight to hard disk via a switcher. That works great. Going portable is a completely different issue. I have yet to try a firestore type solution because it doesn't seem it improves the video quality itself. Maybe the HDMI solutions will be better.

I don't have any more specific questions about the V1. But I am always looking for that person to weigh in with a "gotcha", that you won't know about until it is in your hands. The pros and cons of V1, vs. HVX vs. HD100 Vs A1 etc. etc., have definitely been discussed on this forum in great lengths.

The OIS discussion came up because I asked people to weigh in on issues that come up while operating the V1. I think it was beneficial for me.

That's all I'm after. Additional perspective. I am probably purchasing one this week. I haven't found one person that USES the V1, that has expressed regret for purchasing it. Every camera has challenges to work around, some limitation. And you usually don't see it until you unwrap it.

I have a lot of respect for the folks that post on this forum. There is more usable info here than any other forum I visit. If someone ways in with bad info here at DVi, it will be set straight in a hurry.

Again, thanks to everyone who has responded to this thread.

[Tom Hardwick]

Just a thought Joel. If you're serious about audio you might want some sort of iron written guarantee that you can swap-out the V1 for another camera if you're in any way dissatistfied with the audio quality, whether you use the inbuilt, or expensive external microphones. Some V1's have got through that are simply not up to scratch.

tom.

[Chris Medico]

Joel,

For walkie-talkie type stuff you will not have any issues with audio on the V1. If you were going to do serious music videos or other application needing high resolution audio then I would suggest a stand alone recorder. Audio recording is one place where compromises were made with HDV. This isn't a V1 issue but a HDV format issue. BUT unless you need CD quality or better it won't be a problem.

I have the matching Sony hard drive and I absolutely LOVE this combo. I rarely put a tape in the V1 now. My only gripe is the missing tape icon that continuously flashes in the middle of the viewfinder when you are not shooting with a tape in the cam.

[Ryan Avery]

Originally Posted by Joel Chappell

Thanks for the response so far. Great perspective. I too believe the V1 to be a great camera. My post isn't at all to invite folks to put it down, but just like every other camera, there are annoyances that pop up only after you begin to use it everyday.

The wide angle issue is one I haven't investigated a lot. Are you pretty satisfied with it once you install the adapter?

I currently have a Sony HVR-A1U. I have adapted to it's quirks, limited low-light performance, desaturated reds, etc., and I've been happy overall. But I wish I had known then, what I know now.

I have not ruled out the EX as of yet, but it's kind of early. Looks great though.

I would recommend you take a look at our wide angle attachments for the V1U. The .65x is our most popular as it will give you a 35% wider field of view with full zooming capabilities. Below is a link to all of our accessory lenses for the V1U.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/centu...1u/hvr-v1u.htm

Ryan Avery
Regional Sales Representative
Schneider Optics

[Francis Alexandrino]

Sorry to return to OIS issue, but it is annoying me. I still had no opportunity to test other V1. But a cameraman witch works with V1 told me that he uses two cameras and neither of them shows this issues. He told me that he v heard a lot about of the OIS concerns, but his cameras don t jump the image when the steady is on, both on tripod and handheld. He is a cameraman and i m a journalist. Recently i started to do my job on my own and i started to record with my camera my own news and myself. I m a broadcast tv reporter. As long as my camera got in my hands i noticed the image jumping. It is not possible that he, a professional cameraman, didnt notice that, thought he had listened about the OIS problem. He think - and so do i - that some cameras have this problem and the majority units dont. Maybe some series cameras are defective, i dont know. I v tested a Z1U and didnt notice any jump. And, please, trust in my ability to easy detect the jump.

Is it normal or a defect? thats the question.

[Francis Alexandrino]

Originally Posted by Ryan Avery

I would recommend you take a look at our wide angle attachments for the V1U. The .65x is our most popular as it will give you a 35% wider field of view with full zooming capabilities. Below is a link to all of our accessory lenses for the V1U.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/centu...1u/hvr-v1u.htm

Ryan Avery
Regional Sales Representative
Schneider Optics

I have and love this lens. My only concern is the bayonet system. It is great, easy to operate, but i have other camera with the same 62mm diameter filter. I cant use the wide converter because of the bayonet system. But it is a problem to me.

Twice days ago i did compare a generic .45 x and my century .65 x. It is incredible but the .65 was wider than .45x.

[Ryan Avery]

Originally Posted by Francis Alexandrino

I have and love this lens. My only concern is the bayonet system. It is great, easy to operate, but i have other 62mm diameter filter camera. I cant use the wide converter. But it is a problem to me.

Twice days ago i did compare a generic 4.5 x and my century 6.5 x. It is incredible but the 6.5 was wider than 4.5x.

The only down side to the Bayonet mount is the universality of it. We offer a .8x which you can use a step ring to make it a 62mm. The only issue with this is that it wears on the threads like all other adapters out there and isn't really designed specifically for the camera like the .65x.

http://www.schneideroptics.com/ecomm...=1075&IID=2974

As to why the .45x from another manufacturer appears narrower than our .65x is interesting. It should be wider but magnification isn't the only determining factor as to wideness of a lens. There is also the degrees of field of view. I have seen .4x lenses that had only a 70 degree field of view, very narrow. Where as our .5x's can have up to 100 degrees field of view. It depends on barrel distortion.

Ryan Avery
Regional Sales Representative
Schneider Optics

[Leslie Wand]

Originally Posted by Ron Little

What do you mean by locked levels?

well covered somewhere in this forum - briefly:

if you have one mic and choose to send it to ch 1 and 2 (via the switch), there is no options other than auto or manual for the signal. ie. you CANNOT set ch 1 to auto and seperate ch 2 to a manual level - you can do thia on every other 'pro' model from the 150 up.

leslie

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Francis Alexandrino

I v tested a Z1U and didnt notice any jump. And, please, trust in my ability to easy detect the jump. Is it normal or a defect? thats the question.

It is NORMAL. It is NOT a defect.

This is covered in the operator's manual under SteadyShot: "set to OFF when using a tripod."

If it was a defect then it certainly would not be mentioned in the manual.

There is a reason why some people notice it and some do not -- this is because the OIS jump happens when the SteadyShot Type is set to HARD. If the SteadyShot Type is set to Standard or Soft then the jump will not be as obvious or it may not happen at all.

This is the same for the Z1 as well as the V1 -- if somebody says they do not see an OIS jump from a tripod, it's probably because they do not have HARD selected as the SteadyShot Type. Or as I mentioned above, they might have a lightweight tripod that is not very sturdy or a strong breeze on the camera might also affect it.

But it is important to realize that there are different OIS settings for the V1 and Z1, and the choice of setting will affect the degree of jump when shooting from a tripod. As the manual recommends, it's always a good idea to simply turn off OIS when shooting from a tripod anyway.

There is nothing wrong with your camera.

[Steven Thomas]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

OIS bumps and jumps have been a frequent topic of discussion here ever since I started this site back in 2001. An OIS bump (or jump, whatever you want to call it) occurs at the end of a zoom and the end of a pan or tilt. The greater the focal length (that is, the more telephoto the zoom), the bigger the jump appears.

You must understand that the objective of OIS is to dampen any slight unwanted movements that occur when holding the camera by hand (and it works only when you are doing your best to hold the camera as steadily as possible to begin with). The best OIS mechanisms are designed to compensate for a particular range of frequencies, such as the blood coursing through the veins of your hands and the motion your chest and shoulders make when you inhale and exhale normally. In some cases the frequency range is broad enough to compensate for the normal vibrations felt in an automobile when driving down a smooth road (such as Canon's "Super Range" VAP for instance).

When the camera is mounted on a tripod, there is no unwanted motion for OIS to fight... therefore the only motion it can compensate for is intended motion, such as a deliberate pan or zoom. OIS tries hard to counteract this motion and this is the cause of the jump at the end of a pan or zoom. OIS is simply trying to do its job, but the only motion it can attempt to "correct" on a tripod is that motion which you wanted in the first place -- and as a result it is working against you in that particular circumstance. That's why the manual says "turn off OIS when shooting from a tripod." That's why we say it too.

In situations where the tripod is outdoors in the wind, or if the tripod is lightweight and not very sturdy, or if it is a monopod, then usually you will not see an OIS bump in those conditions. Also some Sony camcorders offer various degrees of OIS effectiveness via menu selection, and the softer ones won't show a bump while the hard setting will. And a lower-grade OIS mechanism might not show it at all because it wasn't very effective in the first place.

I don't believe I've read a better explaination of OIS and its use. Thanks Chris.

[Francis Alexandrino]

Well, i got it.

But how do you explain my test with z1, in which no jump occur, even on hard setting? I put my V1 and Z1 side by side and did the same movements.

How could a professional cameraman, who knows about this concern, have never noticed the jumps in his V1 cameras?

And my user manual tell me to use steady all the time, even on tripod. Only on hard set you should turn it off, they say. My camera, as i said, jumps at all settings and i did not notice no difference between hard and soft settings in terms of image jumps.

I think, maybe, we might not talking about the same problem and i almost convinced that i have a defective camera.

You probably will say: well, go ahead, try to fix it and be happy.

But i think the problem is not so easy and i m sure that it is not only my camera problem. Maybe this OIS system is not stable and has different behaviors in each camera. The fact is: many cameras dont show these jumps, like the z1 tested. And i m not sure that sony will fix my unit. That s because i still discuss this issue. Sorry if i bother anyone.

[Chris Medico]

Originally Posted by Francis Alexandrino

Well, i got it.

But how do you explain my test with z1, in which no jump occur, even on hard setting? I put my V1 and Z1 side by side and did the same movements.

But i think the problem is not so easy and i m sure that it is not only my camera problem. Maybe this OIS system is not stable and has different behaviors in each camera. The fact is: many cameras dont show these jumps, like the z1 tested. And i m not sure that sony will fix my unit. That s because i still discuss this issue. Sorry if i bother anyone.

I think a contributing factor is due to the 20x lens on the V1. If you have a shorter lens on the camera, shake is less apparent and the OIS does not have to be as aggressive. With this very long 20x lens on the camera the OIS must be tuned for more movement and when it recovers it has more jump. This could be why the Z1 and the V1 act differently. This is only an educated guess on my part but I think its plausible.

[Marcus Marchesseault]

The best thing to do is put up a video of an example of the issue. I have seen the OIS jump on other cameras and don't consider the OIS to be problematic on my V1. Show it to us and we can judge if it is normal. If it is a problem, you may need to prove to Sony you have a faulty camera so you need to shoot a test video anyway.

[Francis Alexandrino]

how could i do that? Is there any link? I d like so much.

[Chris Medico]

Originally Posted by Francis Alexandrino

how could i do that? I d like so much.

Go to www.blip.tv and open a free account. Upload a video and post the link to it here on the forum. We would be happy to take a look at it.