V1 Limitations

[Chris Hurd]

You must turn OIS off whenever you shoot from a tripod. This is not a "problem," it is simply a limitation of OIS. There is nothing wrong with your camcorder and it is working properly. The way you describe OIS, it is working properly. Changing cameras will not make a difference... any camcorder using OIS (whether it is Sony, Canon, JVC, Panasonic etc). will do the exact same thing. That is why the manual says to turn OIS off when shooting from a tripod.

Instead of changing camcorders, simply turn OIS off when shooting from a tripod -- problem solved.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Svein Rune Skilnand

Don`t ever use its OIS when on a tripod, ever. It will completely ruin your shot on a pan or tilt or fast moving action. The picture will appear as if it were jumping and this was present on 4 different V1s I have tested.

Actually it will be present on every single camcorder ever made that uses OIS. This is not a "problem." It is simply a limitation of OIS. Always turn it off whenever shooting from a tripod.

[Tom Hardwick]

But there again Chris and I differ. I'm on my seventh Sony and my first Panasonic and all of them have OIS and none of them suffer the very obvious faults that Francis describes. Not one of them have I had to switch the OIS off when used on a tripod, though I do (if I remember) when I'm transferring film to video. Switching it on or off makes not the slightest difference so I'm not sure why I do this apart from 'following the instructions'. And as many will know on these boards I'm a fussy sort of chap when it comes to picture quality.

tom.

[Piotr Wozniacki]

With all due respect, I also differ on that. Apart from very extreme situations (also not necessarily atributable to OIS), I don't have to switch it off when on tripod at all.

[Francis Alexandrino]

I should better testing another V1U to conclude if i have a defective unit. But in Brazil i v never seen anyone using this model so far. The Z1 is most common.

[Ron Little]

I have a DVX 100, Cannon GL2 and a Sony V1 and all of them need to have the OS turned off on a tripod to get a smooth pan.

[Chris Hurd]

There are variations of OIS effectiveness. The higher quality, more effective OIS mechanisms really need to be turned off for tripod use. Also, the sturdier and more stable the tripod, the more important it is to turn off OIS. For example all Canon camcorders will exhibit the OIS "jump" at the end of a zoom or pan. You might not notice it on a lower grade tripod or a lower end OIS mechanism. Sony's Super SteadyShot -- when it's optical and not electronic -- is just the Canon Lens Shift or VAP technology under license.

[Francis Alexandrino]

Chris, does the image literary jump after the movement, or during sometimes? Even on handheld shots? My camera has this approach. It doesnt happen all the time, and it happens only on pan and tilt, or when they are combined - not on zoon movement. To occur on handheld shots, you must do the movement very steady and perfect. On tilt and pan combined, the jump tend to be more frequently, both on tripod and handheld shots. On tele shots, the jump is bigger. But the image jumps independent of wide or tele shots. I didnt notice any difference if the OIS is on hard, standard, soft or wide convert preset. Maybe on hard preset the image tends to jump more than on other presets, i dont know.

It is important to say that the OIS works perfectly and i can perceive clearly the difference between the presets. The steadyshot is very effective in almost all situations. Even on tripod, if the image doesnt jump, i dont notice any unwanted effect. I can do some pans and tilts on tripod. As i said before, the problem doesnt occur all the time. I d tried to identify patterns and a figured that it occurs on long pans and tilts - more frequently when they are combined -, in a certain speed, and when you stop firmly the movement.

This is the better i can describe my V1 OIS problem in english - maybe in portuguese too :)

[Chris Hurd]

OIS bumps and jumps have been a frequent topic of discussion here ever since I started this site back in 2001. An OIS bump (or jump, whatever you want to call it) occurs at the end of a zoom and the end of a pan or tilt. The greater the focal length (that is, the more telephoto the zoom), the bigger the jump appears.

You must understand that the objective of OIS is to dampen any slight unwanted movements that occur when holding the camera by hand (and it works only when you are doing your best to hold the camera as steadily as possible to begin with). The best OIS mechanisms are designed to compensate for a particular range of frequencies, such as the blood coursing through the veins of your hands and the motion your chest and shoulders make when you inhale and exhale normally. In some cases the frequency range is broad enough to compensate for the normal vibrations felt in an automobile when driving down a smooth road (such as Canon's "Super Range" VAP for instance).

When the camera is mounted on a tripod, there is no unwanted motion for OIS to fight... therefore the only motion it can compensate for is intended motion, such as a deliberate pan or zoom. OIS tries hard to counteract this motion and this is the cause of the jump at the end of a pan or zoom. OIS is simply trying to do its job, but the only motion it can attempt to "correct" on a tripod is that motion which you wanted in the first place -- and as a result it is working against you in that particular circumstance. That's why the manual says "turn off OIS when shooting from a tripod." That's why we say it too.

In situations where the tripod is outdoors in the wind, or if the tripod is lightweight and not very sturdy, or if it is a monopod, then usually you will not see an OIS bump in those conditions. Also some Sony camcorders offer various degrees of OIS effectiveness via menu selection, and the softer ones won't show a bump while the hard setting will. And a lower-grade OIS mechanism might not show it at all because it wasn't very effective in the first place.

[Chris Medico]

Thanks Chris for the great explanation.

I have a V1 and yes, I also notice this happening. I also know its not a defect in the camera.

The image will jump under certain situations when the OIS attempts to catch up from a prolonged movement in a single direction. It is nice that the V1 has a soft setting on the OIS and SOFT does reduce this effect. The only improvement I could suggest is to increase the time the camera waits before it tries to make the correction and causes the jump in the video.

I turn OIS off when I'm shooing things from a tripod and will be moving the camera. A little shake won't be noticeable under those conditions. BUT I turn it on if I'm shooing LONG zooms with little movement. It does a good job of taking out that little shake that can be seen if you are on the wooden floor of an old building with people walking around or you touch the tripod or something like that.

[Chris Hurd]

Sony owners should be grateful for the ability to map OIS on / off to a convenient user button... on the Canon XH camcorders the option is buried in the menu, which is a real nuisance.

[Joel Chappell]

As frustrating as OIS can be on any camera when it bumps and jumps, as Chris puts it, I don't think it is a V1 limitation alone. Many cameras exhibit the same annoyances under certain conditions.

I appreciate the input about V1 limits and "loves", and the primer on OIS.

Anyone else have input regarding this camera? I haven't really heard anyone comment on the hard disk option. I assume it works great. I've read other threads where users have experienced minor issues.

Is there anything the V1 can accomplish that another can not? (I guess that would sort of be the opposite of V1 limitations..)

Thanks everyone for your input.

Joel

[Leslie Wand]

joel, exactly what do you want it for? i'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread, which i read, but haven't the time to reread.

if you're doing something like weddings, then the simplest option is to hire one, shoot a wedding, and ditto the alternative cameras, then edit with your nle and compare end results.

if you do more varied work, then there's a whole raft of considerations that come into play....

i started by thinking i wanted the z1 - but after hiring one found it too heavy and cumbersome for my style of camera-work (having used a pd170 previously). i then looked at the canon a1, but immediately discounted it due pretty much to the fact i have relatively small hands and operating the rocker was really uncomfortable, and that its build quality, at least on the one i tried out, seem a bit poor. i hired a v1 and, considering the alternatives, opted for it.

i HATE the locked levels on one mic input, such a bloody stupid decision sony made, and as mentioned, ois can be annoying if i forget to switch it off when shooting on legs, otherwise, i'm very happy.

if you have specific questions, i'm sure those here will be only too happy to answer...

leslie

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Joel Chappell

As frustrating as OIS can be on any camera when it bumps and jumps...

It's not at all "frustrating" when you understand *why* it happens, as I've explained above. There are times when you need OIS and there are times when you should turn it off so that it's not working against you, and these situations are pretty much straightforward: when you're not using a tripod or when you are using a tripod. I wouldn't call it frustrating to remember to switch off a setting when using a tripod. It's just a matter of knowing how your camera works, and when to use a function vs. when not to use it.

[Ron Little]

What do you mean by locked levels?