V1 Limitations

Joel Chappell · November 11th, 2007, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Hardwick

I say this with a smile, but I'm not surprised you don't use OIS with your Sony A1 as it has EIS.

True. EIS is SUPPOSED to accomplish the same result... but not even close. I haven't ever really considered OIS as an important consideration because I've never had it to miss. I also don't do much hand held. Even with the small form factor cameras, I end up using them on a tripod or spider brace.

When the V1 came out, I hoped it would be so advanced that it would be the one we all went for, not unlike the Pana DVX100. I have to say that even though I don't own one, it seems from what I've observed through other folk's footage, or even here on this forum, that it fell a bit short.

Truthfully, I was hoping to get responses from folks that own V1's saying things like "are you nuts? The V1 does not have limitations!" or something of that nature.

Unfortunately, in reality, there isn't a camera produced yet, that does not have limitations. Particularly in this price range.

I love the CMOS sensors above all else. Even Thomson/Grass Valley states on their website that in the next 2-5 years, all of their offerings will be CMOS. Red is CMOS. XDCAM-EX is CMOS. My A1u's are CMOS. And the V1 is CMOS.

I just get a sense that Sony went a little short by using the 1/4" Clearvids on this camera, and I think I hear it in the sum average of user feedback.

Anyone is welcomed to straighten my viewpoint thus far...

Piotr Wozniacki · November 11th, 2007, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Chappell

Truthfully, I was hoping to get responses from folks that own V1's saying things like "are you nuts? The V1 does not have limitations!" or something of that nature.

Unfortunately, in reality, there isn't a camera produced yet, that does not have limitations. Particularly in this price range...

I have written a lot of comments about my satisfaction with the V1; they all can be found in this forum and its subforums. It's very true that "there isn't a camera produced yet, that does not have limitations", but the V1 is very close - simply put, ther is no camera of its size and price that would produce a better picture IMO.

So, take this as another proof of my high regard of the V1: even though I do not make my living on vidoe, I'm not selling my V1 while upgrading to the EX1 - I'm going to keep it as my B camera!

Joel Chappell · November 11th, 2007, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki

So, take this as another proof of my high regard of the V1: even though I do not make my living on vidoe, I'm not selling my V1 while upgrading to the EX1 - I'm going to keep it as my B camera!

Sweet. That sounds like a great position to be in.

Piotr Wozniacki · November 11th, 2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Chappell

Sweet. That sounds like a great position to be in.

Convince my wife about it... :)

Francis Alexandrino · November 22nd, 2007, 01:34 PM

[QUOTE=Svein Rune Skilnand;772966]Hi Joel. The V1 will give you beautiful and very clean images in both DV and HDV.

But the camera has its limitations. Don`t ever use its OIS when on a tripod, ever. It will completely ruin your shot on a pan or tilt or fast moving action. The picture will appear as if it were jumping and this was present on 4 different V1s I have tested. Even Sony Primesupport Europe confirmes this.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello, i m from Brazil, Rio de Janeiro, and i m new here. I v bought a HVR v1u that i think is a defective camera. After some pans and tilts, or when you match this two movements, the image jump. It is not occur during the movement, but after that, when you stop the movement. I v tested a Z1 U and it did not occur.

well, i have a big problem. I bought this camera in USA and Sony Brazil doesn t support me. If i send my camera to USA i have to pay taxes to bring it back. It corresponds a 60 % of the camera price. It is a big problem.

I went to a sony technical support and they didn t identify the problem. Nobody in B&H, where i bought, and in technical support have heard about this problem. Is there anybody here has or had the same problem?

thks a lot

Matt Vanecek · November 22nd, 2007, 01:53 PM

I use OIS a whole bunch while on a tripod, and it works just fine. Of course, my tripod is sitting on a spring-form floor, and people walking by certainly do cause a bit of rocking and vibrating. And I don't do very much in the way of pan & tilt...

If I were on a solid surface on a tripod, then I wouldn't see a need to use OIS in the first place.

I've been very happy with my V1U. My only regret is the 1/4 chips--I *almost* got the Canon A1 because of that.

Tom Hardwick · November 22nd, 2007, 02:02 PM

Matt - the 1"/3 Canon chips have got to be better - and the XH-A1 has more wideangle, too. But oh, your sidescreen is better. Pros and cons, hey?

I'm mighty surprised to read all this about the V1's OIS as it uses the same vibrating elements principle as my FX1 and Z1. Neither of these cameras need their SSSS turning off when used on a triopd, and that's in the normal, soft and wide OIS positions. I haven't tested the 'hard' position.

In fact as a wedding shooter I'm on and off the tripod all day long. I'd find it a right pain if I had to constantly remember to switch on and off depending on where I'm at. I'd suggest that Francis' V1 has a problem, not the model as a whole.

tom.

Francis Alexandrino · November 22nd, 2007, 02:30 PM

I'd suggest that Francis' V1 has a problem, not the model as a whole.

-------------------------

I think that is true. Well, i have a huge bad luck. I ll try to fix it here and pay for. But the difficult will be detect the problem, because it not occur all the time. And the image jump up, down, right and left, depends on the movement. Sometimes during the movement, but normally after that. Because of the characteristic of this problem - jumping for all directions -, i think that the both sensors are defective. Maybe the whole system. I m so sad!!!

Mike Beckett · November 22nd, 2007, 02:31 PM

I get "jumpy" pans on a tripod if I have OIS on, and if even sometimes if I crash zoom while framing a shot whether handheld or tripod. It seems to be worse if you set the stabilizer to be "hard".

I turn the stabilzier off, I get no jumps. I have this tied to one of the front custom buttons, so it's no big drama to knock it on or off quickly - assuming I actually remember to do so!

In fairness, the manual does tell us to turn the OIS off on tripods and not to use the "hard" setting if you're going to pan or tilt.

Francis Alexandrino · November 22nd, 2007, 03:21 PM

[I get "jumpy" pans on a tripod if I have OIS on, and if even sometimes if I crash zoom while framing a shot whether handheld or tripod. It seems to be worse if you set the stabilizer to be "hard".

--------

i think that in my case is different. It is no like Junpy. The image jump in fact after the movement or sometimes during that. Wird.

Marcus Marchesseault · November 23rd, 2007, 01:49 AM

The V1 isn't the only camera that needs the OIS turned off when on a tripod. The erratic behavior is most evident when a camera with OIS is on a tripod and zoomed in tight. I am very happy with the performance with the OIS on the V1 when it is needed. I mounted the V1 in my truck and drove around town and got much better video than expected considering the poor road conditions and imperfect suspension in my vehicle. The image looked stable while the hood of the truck was bouncing up and down. That means the stabilization was doing it's job. Once I framed the video to not include the vehicle, it looked nice and smooth with only a little motion blur during rough pavement. I increased the shutter speed to eliminate the blur.

I have few disappointments with the V1. It isn't perfect, but it also doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars. It is much more camera than my previous VX2000 except in low light. I am not disappointed with the low-light capability as it is better than many SD cameras that were not as good as the VX/PD cameras but still well-liked. It only seems fair that to get the same performance in HD as the PD/VX had in SD that it will cost more money (i.e. the HDCAM EX1).

John Bosco Jr. · November 23rd, 2007, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Alexandrino

[I get "jumpy" pans on a tripod if I have OIS on, and if even sometimes if I crash zoom while framing a shot whether handheld or tripod. It seems to be worse if you set the stabilizer to be "hard".

--------

i think that in my case is different. It is no like Junpy. The image jump in fact after the movement or sometimes during that. Wird.

Francis does your camera display the same problem with the OIS off? If it don't then problem solved. If you try and create problems on your V1, then all you are going to do is spend a lot of money, and when you get the camera back from service, it will be no different then what you have now.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with your unit. My suggestion is also Sony's, and that is to turn OIS off when on a tripod. You can always assigned this as a custom button. Also, avoid as much as possible using the hard setting on the OIS.

Don't assume that you have a lemon because the camera is not running exactly to your liking. Test it out with the OIS off. If it still displays the same issues, then you have a problem. If it don't, then you're good to go and have to accept the OIS issue as a limitation of the unit.

John Bosco Jr. · November 23rd, 2007, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Marchesseault

It only seems fair that to get the same performance in HD as the PD/VX had in SD that it will cost more money (i.e. the HDCAM EX1).

That would be the XDCam EX. I don't believe HDCam has an EX model.

Marcus Marchesseault · November 23rd, 2007, 04:38 PM

Sorry. Yes, it is XDCAM and not HDCAM. Here is a link to the exact camera:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...AM_EX_SxS.html

It looks like a fantastic camera but it will be more than twice the cost of the V1 once a few memory cards are factored. Perhaps the real upgrade from the V1 is the Z7 but that is also more expensive and it looks a bit larger. For the price, the V1 is still a very nice camera.

Francis Alexandrino · November 23rd, 2007, 08:45 PM

Francis does your camera display the same problem with the OIS off?

--------------------------

No, John, i forgot to say that. It is a OIS problem. When it is off, no jump. But i v tested a Z1, which some say have the same problem, and the image didn t jump. I m really afraid to send my camera to USA and it returns the same. I really don t know what to do. I will turn off the steady and go work, because time is money and i cant stop now. If i confirm that my unit has a problem or find a cheep way to send and return my camera i ll try to fix it ... or not. I don t know. I know only that my next camera will not be Sony.

November 22nd, 2007, 01:34 PM	#20
Francis Alexandrino New Boot Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Brazil Posts: 23	Steadyshot problem V1U [QUOTE=Svein Rune Skilnand;772966]Hi Joel. The V1 will give you beautiful and very clean images in both DV and HDV. But the camera has its limitations. Don`t ever use its OIS when on a tripod, ever. It will completely ruin your shot on a pan or tilt or fast moving action. The picture will appear as if it were jumping and this was present on 4 different V1s I have tested. Even Sony Primesupport Europe confirmes this. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello, i m from Brazil, Rio de Janeiro, and i m new here. I v bought a HVR v1u that i think is a defective camera. After some pans and tilts, or when you match this two movements, the image jump. It is not occur during the movement, but after that, when you stop the movement. I v tested a Z1 U and it did not occur. well, i have a big problem. I bought this camera in USA and Sony Brazil doesn t support me. If i send my camera to USA i have to pay taxes to bring it back. It corresponds a 60 % of the camera price. It is a big problem. I went to a sony technical support and they didn t identify the problem. Nobody in B&H, where i bought, and in technical support have heard about this problem. Is there anybody here has or had the same problem? thks a lot Last edited by Francis Alexandrino; November 22nd, 2007 at 01:55 PM. Reason: mistake

November 22nd, 2007, 02:30 PM	#23
Francis Alexandrino New Boot Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Brazil Posts: 23	V1U problem I'd suggest that Francis' V1 has a problem, not the model as a whole. ------------------------- I think that is true. Well, i have a huge bad luck. I ll try to fix it here and pay for. But the difficult will be detect the problem, because it not occur all the time. And the image jump up, down, right and left, depends on the movement. Sometimes during the movement, but normally after that. Because of the characteristic of this problem - jumping for all directions -, i think that the both sensors are defective. Maybe the whole system. I m so sad!!! Last edited by Francis Alexandrino; November 22nd, 2007 at 02:33 PM. Reason: mistake

November 22nd, 2007, 02:31 PM	#24
Mike Beckett Trustee Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Antrim, Northern Ireland Posts: 1,569	I get "jumpy" pans on a tripod if I have OIS on, and if even sometimes if I crash zoom while framing a shot whether handheld or tripod. It seems to be worse if you set the stabilizer to be "hard". I turn the stabilzier off, I get no jumps. I have this tied to one of the front custom buttons, so it's no big drama to knock it on or off quickly - assuming I actually remember to do so! In fairness, the manual does tell us to turn the OIS off on tripods and not to use the "hard" setting if you're going to pan or tilt. __________________ Irish Railway Videos on Youtube

November 22nd, 2007, 03:21 PM	#25
Francis Alexandrino New Boot Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Brazil Posts: 23	v1 problem [I get "jumpy" pans on a tripod if I have OIS on, and if even sometimes if I crash zoom while framing a shot whether handheld or tripod. It seems to be worse if you set the stabilizer to be "hard". -------- i think that in my case is different. It is no like Junpy. The image jump in fact after the movement or sometimes during that. Wird.

November 22nd, 2007, 01:53 PM	#21
Matt Vanecek Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 334	I use OIS a whole bunch while on a tripod, and it works just fine. Of course, my tripod is sitting on a spring-form floor, and people walking by certainly do cause a bit of rocking and vibrating. And I don't do very much in the way of pan & tilt... If I were on a solid surface on a tripod, then I wouldn't see a need to use OIS in the first place. I've been very happy with my V1U. My only regret is the 1/4 chips--I almost got the Canon A1 because of that.

November 22nd, 2007, 02:02 PM	#22
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Matt - the 1"/3 Canon chips have got to be better - and the XH-A1 has more wideangle, too. But oh, your sidescreen is better. Pros and cons, hey? I'm mighty surprised to read all this about the V1's OIS as it uses the same vibrating elements principle as my FX1 and Z1. Neither of these cameras need their SSSS turning off when used on a triopd, and that's in the normal, soft and wide OIS positions. I haven't tested the 'hard' position. In fact as a wedding shooter I'm on and off the tripod all day long. I'd find it a right pain if I had to constantly remember to switch on and off depending on where I'm at. I'd suggest that Francis' V1 has a problem, not the model as a whole. tom.

November 23rd, 2007, 01:49 AM	#26
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	The V1 isn't the only camera that needs the OIS turned off when on a tripod. The erratic behavior is most evident when a camera with OIS is on a tripod and zoomed in tight. I am very happy with the performance with the OIS on the V1 when it is needed. I mounted the V1 in my truck and drove around town and got much better video than expected considering the poor road conditions and imperfect suspension in my vehicle. The image looked stable while the hood of the truck was bouncing up and down. That means the stabilization was doing it's job. Once I framed the video to not include the vehicle, it looked nice and smooth with only a little motion blur during rough pavement. I increased the shutter speed to eliminate the blur. I have few disappointments with the V1. It isn't perfect, but it also doesn't cost tens of thousands of dollars. It is much more camera than my previous VX2000 except in low light. I am not disappointed with the low-light capability as it is better than many SD cameras that were not as good as the VX/PD cameras but still well-liked. It only seems fair that to get the same performance in HD as the PD/VX had in SD that it will cost more money (i.e. the HDCAM EX1).

November 23rd, 2007, 04:38 PM	#29
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	Sorry. Yes, it is XDCAM and not HDCAM. Here is a link to the exact camera: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...AM_EX_SxS.html It looks like a fantastic camera but it will be more than twice the cost of the V1 once a few memory cards are factored. Perhaps the real upgrade from the V1 is the Z7 but that is also more expensive and it looks a bit larger. For the price, the V1 is still a very nice camera.

November 23rd, 2007, 08:45 PM	#30
Francis Alexandrino New Boot Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Brazil Posts: 23	Francis does your camera display the same problem with the OIS off? -------------------------- No, John, i forgot to say that. It is a OIS problem. When it is off, no jump. But i v tested a Z1, which some say have the same problem, and the image didn t jump. I m really afraid to send my camera to USA and it returns the same. I really don t know what to do. I will turn off the steady and go work, because time is money and i cant stop now. If i confirm that my unit has a problem or find a cheep way to send and return my camera i ll try to fix it ... or not. I don t know. I know only that my next camera will not be Sony.