Extract 24P without Cinefrom at DVinfo.net

Malameel Shawky · August 3rd, 2007, 12:50 AM

Well, after a few comments back and forth, CineForm won't work for me. (I use a PowerPC Mac with no need to upgrade... or budget for a new system.) I am using the DR60 so each digital file is nice and ready to go... no tape issues. I am shooting the 24P advance.

So what other way (Not Cineform) can I extract the 24P from the V1U on the Mac? Sorry I new to Mac, but I am decent at FCS, and I just bought the upgrade to FCS2.

I do not mind if the solution is on the PC, but I need a standard QT codec.

I am not sure if I am going to FCP so I am just trying to make a clean QT file that I can edit anywhere later, PC or Mac. I have been editing with uncompressed 4:4:4 Full HD footage so I know my systems can handle it so I am not worried about the file size getting larger.

Any help would be appreciated.
M

Update: I am tryiong to batch convert a series of files...

Malameel Shawky · August 3rd, 2007, 11:09 PM

No love?

I am sure there has to be a simple way?

M

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 3rd, 2007, 11:30 PM

Vegas provides this feature. Maybe Bootcamp with Windows?

Ricardo Ismach · August 4th, 2007, 11:43 AM

On the Mac (with Final Cut Studio), Compressor should do the trick. In fact, it has adaptive detection of cadences, in case your batch of clips don't all start the same with respect to pulldown (as they should when shot in Sony's 24pA).

Compressor 3 has worked great for me IF I am also transcoding at the same time - for example, HDV -> ProRes and remove pulldown. But If I try to stay in the same codec, it chokes, freezes. Here is the workflow I am trying to use:

record HDV ->
capture ProRes HQ (via HDMI to Black Magic Intensity) ->
remove pulldown with compressor.

When I capture HDV, if I use FCP scene detection, the clips lose 10-20 frames on each end. Otherwise, I doubt there is any quality advantage to the workflow above - the signal has been compressed to HDV already, although the HDMI output is 1920 x 1080 and 4:2:2.

Ricardo

Heath McKnight · August 19th, 2007, 09:36 PM

Are you having luck with converting to ProRes 422 on the fly? Are you on a Quad system?

Also, As far as I can tell, the DR60 isn't compatible with Macs and FCP. Unless something's changed that I don't know about--Spot?

I wrote up an article about removing the pulldown in FCP at www.vasst.com under Free Resources (you'll need a free account). You can change your footage to ProRes 422 (HQ) or the regular flavor instead of Photo - Jpeg at 75% Quality.

Heath

Malameel Shawky · August 19th, 2007, 10:03 PM

I had sent a few emails to Vasst seeking help or training to figure out all the possibilities with teh V1U, but never received any reply.

So this is just my accidental workflow.

So far I am not using the Mac with my V1U. However, the DR60 seems to mount like a normal Hard Drive, but I never actually plugged it into my Mac yet since verything works great on the PC. Of course I woudl prefer FCP at this point.

Of course, on the PC, I can use Cineform to extract the 24P and then batch convert those files to somthing the Mac can use. Other have said that Compressor can remove the pull down from the M2T files, but I have not had a chance to try it yet. That would save me more in my workflwo than Cineform can.

M

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 19th, 2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

Are you having luck with converting to ProRes 422 on the fly? Are you on a Quad system?

Also, As far as I can tell, the DR60 isn't compatible with Macs and FCP. Unless something's changed that I don't know about--Spot?
Heath

The DR60 is a FAT 32 system specifically so it *does* work with FCP. Otherwise, we wouldn't be saddled with FAT 32.

Melameel, I've just gone through our mail server and found one email to any/all addresses dating to June 21, which I personally responded to at the latimundo address at msn.

Steve Mullen · August 19th, 2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malameel Shawky

No love?

I am sure there has to be a simple way?

M

CinemaTools can be used for pulldown removal. The process is documented in my eBook BUT CT Batch Process didn't work. This week I'll check if CT in FCS2 works. If it does, then CT will be a good solution for OS X users.

Vegas works great with Bootcamp.

Heath McKnight · August 19th, 2007, 10:59 PM

Spot, thanks for clarifying the DR60 and FCP.

heath

Malameel Shawky · September 6th, 2007, 04:09 PM

I am still trying to get this to work.

It will not accept the M2T file. It is just grayed out.

Did I have to convert the M2T file into something else first?

I have digital files from a DR60 that were shot in 24A.
When I try to open them with CinemaTools, the file is just grayed out.

I will look into compressor right now.

I am obviously not a Mac guy.
M

Malameel Shawky · September 6th, 2007, 04:34 PM

Compressor was same situation.

I also tried Streamclip, but it was confusing so I didn't know if I was actually getting the best conversion.

ARRGGHH.
M

Malameel Shawky · September 7th, 2007, 03:10 PM

Streamclip keeps crashing and forces me to use a compression, so I cannot just make an uncompressed QT.

If I do use cineform, it just crashes after effects.

M2T Files suck!
M

Greg Quinn · September 7th, 2007, 05:23 PM

FWIW, I'm also using a DR60 and 24PA on the V1U and at least on my Mac Pro (Intel quad core) the workflow of:
M2T -> MPEG Streamclip -> Apple Intermediate Codec -> Cinema Tools
has worked well, with the proviso that Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools won't properly batch process pulldown removal.

I haven't had a problem using MPEG Streamclip on either a Mac or PC.

Nick Williams · September 7th, 2007, 07:25 PM

The previous workflow has worked well for me too. Although it's true there are problems batching in cinema tools, the slipstream batching works well.

Malameel Shawky · September 8th, 2007, 07:28 PM

Maybe you guys can help with some setting issues?

When I take my M2T files, and load it in,
What codec are you using?
I iwll not be using a proxy, but it seems that umpressed maybe unnecessary for 4:2:0. However, I do not want to lose what little I have.

The frame is unclear, do I use my shooting frame rate which then will always be 60i (with V1U) or does it want 60 only? Then how do I get the 24P? I am shooting in 24A, but I do not see anywhere to extract the embedded 24P stream...

Or do I have to reverse telecine that seperately? This of course would lead to my net question, then how do I do that?

(If Cineform didn't use the Cineform codec, I would buy it instantly!)

I am sorry, but I am not a Mac guy so I am learning this side of things and apprecaite any help.
M

August 3rd, 2007, 12:50 AM	#1
Malameel Shawky Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 68	Extract 24P without Cinefrom Well, after a few comments back and forth, CineForm won't work for me. (I use a PowerPC Mac with no need to upgrade... or budget for a new system.) I am using the DR60 so each digital file is nice and ready to go... no tape issues. I am shooting the 24P advance. So what other way (Not Cineform) can I extract the 24P from the V1U on the Mac? Sorry I new to Mac, but I am decent at FCS, and I just bought the upgrade to FCS2. I do not mind if the solution is on the PC, but I need a standard QT codec. I am not sure if I am going to FCP so I am just trying to make a clean QT file that I can edit anywhere later, PC or Mac. I have been editing with uncompressed 4:4:4 Full HD footage so I know my systems can handle it so I am not worried about the file size getting larger. Any help would be appreciated. M Update: I am tryiong to batch convert a series of files... Last edited by Malameel Shawky; August 3rd, 2007 at 11:52 PM.

August 3rd, 2007, 11:30 PM	#3
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Vegas provides this feature. Maybe Bootcamp with Windows? __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

August 4th, 2007, 11:43 AM	#4
Ricardo Ismach Tourist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 3	Compressor or On the Mac (with Final Cut Studio), Compressor should do the trick. In fact, it has adaptive detection of cadences, in case your batch of clips don't all start the same with respect to pulldown (as they should when shot in Sony's 24pA). Compressor 3 has worked great for me IF I am also transcoding at the same time - for example, HDV -> ProRes and remove pulldown. But If I try to stay in the same codec, it chokes, freezes. Here is the workflow I am trying to use: record HDV -> capture ProRes HQ (via HDMI to Black Magic Intensity) -> remove pulldown with compressor. When I capture HDV, if I use FCP scene detection, the clips lose 10-20 frames on each end. Otherwise, I doubt there is any quality advantage to the workflow above - the signal has been compressed to HDV already, although the HDMI output is 1920 x 1080 and 4:2:2. Ricardo __________________ Ricardo Ismach Casual Dog Productions, LLC

August 19th, 2007, 09:36 PM	#5
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Are you having luck with converting to ProRes 422 on the fly? Are you on a Quad system? Also, As far as I can tell, the DR60 isn't compatible with Macs and FCP. Unless something's changed that I don't know about--Spot? I wrote up an article about removing the pulldown in FCP at www.vasst.com under Free Resources (you'll need a free account). You can change your footage to ProRes 422 (HQ) or the regular flavor instead of Photo - Jpeg at 75% Quality. Heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

August 19th, 2007, 10:59 PM	#9
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Spot, thanks for clarifying the DR60 and FCP. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

August 3rd, 2007, 11:09 PM	#2
Malameel Shawky Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 68	No love? I am sure there has to be a simple way? M

August 19th, 2007, 10:03 PM	#6
Malameel Shawky Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 68	I had sent a few emails to Vasst seeking help or training to figure out all the possibilities with teh V1U, but never received any reply. So this is just my accidental workflow. So far I am not using the Mac with my V1U. However, the DR60 seems to mount like a normal Hard Drive, but I never actually plugged it into my Mac yet since verything works great on the PC. Of course I woudl prefer FCP at this point. Of course, on the PC, I can use Cineform to extract the 24P and then batch convert those files to somthing the Mac can use. Other have said that Compressor can remove the pull down from the M2T files, but I have not had a chance to try it yet. That would save me more in my workflwo than Cineform can. M

September 6th, 2007, 04:09 PM	#10
Malameel Shawky Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 68	I am still trying to get this to work. It will not accept the M2T file. It is just grayed out. Did I have to convert the M2T file into something else first? I have digital files from a DR60 that were shot in 24A. When I try to open them with CinemaTools, the file is just grayed out. I will look into compressor right now. I am obviously not a Mac guy. M

September 6th, 2007, 04:34 PM	#11
Malameel Shawky Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 68	Nope Compressor was same situation. I also tried Streamclip, but it was confusing so I didn't know if I was actually getting the best conversion. ARRGGHH. M

September 7th, 2007, 03:10 PM	#12
Malameel Shawky Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 68	Streamclip keeps crashing and forces me to use a compression, so I cannot just make an uncompressed QT. If I do use cineform, it just crashes after effects. M2T Files suck! M

September 7th, 2007, 05:23 PM	#13
Greg Quinn Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 505	FWIW, I'm also using a DR60 and 24PA on the V1U and at least on my Mac Pro (Intel quad core) the workflow of: M2T -> MPEG Streamclip -> Apple Intermediate Codec -> Cinema Tools has worked well, with the proviso that Reverse Telecine in Cinema Tools won't properly batch process pulldown removal. I haven't had a problem using MPEG Streamclip on either a Mac or PC.

September 7th, 2007, 07:25 PM	#14
Nick Williams New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 19	The previous workflow has worked well for me too. Although it's true there are problems batching in cinema tools, the slipstream batching works well.

September 8th, 2007, 07:28 PM	#15
Malameel Shawky Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 68	Maybe you guys can help with some setting issues? When I take my M2T files, and load it in, What codec are you using? I iwll not be using a proxy, but it seems that umpressed maybe unnecessary for 4:2:0. However, I do not want to lose what little I have. The frame is unclear, do I use my shooting frame rate which then will always be 60i (with V1U) or does it want 60 only? Then how do I get the 24P? I am shooting in 24A, but I do not see anywhere to extract the embedded 24P stream... Or do I have to reverse telecine that seperately? This of course would lead to my net question, then how do I do that? (If Cineform didn't use the Cineform codec, I would buy it instantly!) I am sorry, but I am not a Mac guy so I am learning this side of things and apprecaite any help. M