AUDIO AND VIDEO not nsynch (sometimes) at DVinfo.net

Kren Barnes · September 24th, 2008, 02:29 PM

Hello Everyone,

New to this group. I am a wedding videographer in Winnipeg ,Canada and uses the HD1000u as our main equipment. We are a 2 man crew (same cameras) that started this business last year. Hoping someone can help me in my problem:

My problem lies in that ,sometimes ,when i capture the audio & video using Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 on Windows XP, the audio and video would be out of synch by less than a second.

I have a brand new quad core CPU with a NVIDIA video card.

An example was yesterday when i captured the ceremony with no problem, but when i popped in the reception tape and captured it , the audio was not nsync. re captured it again but same result. any inputs are appreciated.

Ken from "winterpeg"

William Hohauser · September 24th, 2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kren Barnes

Hello Everyone,

New to this group. I am a wedding videographer in Winnipeg ,Canada and uses the HD1000u as our main equipment. We are a 2 man crew (same cameras) that started this business last year. Hoping someone can help me in my problem:

My problem lies in that ,sometimes ,when i capture the audio & video using Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 on Windows XP, the audio and video would be out of synch by less than a second.

I have a brand new quad core CPU with a NVIDIA video card.

An example was yesterday when i captured the ceremony with no problem, but when i popped in the reception tape and captured it , the audio was not nsync. re captured it again but same result. any inputs are appreciated.

Ken from "winterpeg"

Several issues can cause this. Tape dropout, a bad in-camera pause, a defect in the camera.

Try capturing the bad tape in smaller, perhaps 10 minute, sections. You might isolate the problem this way.

Kren Barnes · September 24th, 2008, 10:48 PM

Thanks William

My editor friend told me that it could be also the non stop pausing and starting of the camera when im shooting footages. Your thoughts? These are brand new cameras (barely a month old) . On Adobe PP it shows if you have a dropped frame and in this case does not indicate that there are any. We are currently using Sony Premium Tapes.

Noel Lising · September 25th, 2008, 08:09 AM

Funny I was discussing this with our in-house camera geek. He told me that when you ingest HD for editing, the video and audio would be out of sync after 8 minutes. He told me that I should cut every 8 minutes when shooting ( which is not possible coz I shoot weddings). I am not shooting HD yet but I like picking his brains. Note: He also told me that this only applies to tape format, those using tapeless format will not run into this problem.

Has anyone found a solution to this yet?

Kren Barnes · September 25th, 2008, 09:10 AM

Thanks Noel
Actually i've shoot footages 60 minutes straight and capturing it was fine.
We've had on a couple occassions run into the same problem with using cameras with hard drive formats (SR1) now im thinking it is because of the bad camera pauses i take when shooting..i have to call the A/V guy where we got the cameras from and get his 2 cents...

Noel Lising · September 25th, 2008, 09:18 AM

Hi Kren,

Do you have clips to share? want to see HD1000 in action.

Bob Hart · September 25th, 2008, 09:51 AM

Kren.

In Premiere Pro, are you using its own HDV setting for capturing and editing in?

Try the Cineform Prospect 4K trial and see if that makes the problem go away. It can be found at CineForm Home Page.

If you are already using cineform's plug-in then please ignore my suggestion.

Kren Barnes · September 25th, 2008, 10:58 PM

Hi Bob,

Yes we are..
I will certainly try your suggestion, however my hunch is that it is my incessant use of the pause and restart button.

Noel,

Here is the HD1000u in action..

YouTube - Vertical Video Works

Also, are you of Filipino descent?

Bob Hart · September 26th, 2008, 12:55 AM

Kren.

When using two Z1 cameras on long takes of a 35 minute ceremonial court sitting, I used cineform, captured entire tapes and had no problems. However I have used cineform from the outset for HDV and knew no different

I did a multicamera of a music performance. The performer also has Adobe Premiere Pro but no cineform so wanted it to be Premiere's native codec for subsequent post work on his computer, so I obliged.

On capture, the second camera footage was as you describe, incrementally shorter through the entire clip.

I took the m2t file into HDLink and converted the entire capture without problems. I did not choose the split scene option in the menu.

I finished the entire project in cineform.

I found that Premiere was more glitchy, inclined to forget itself, apologise then shut down when I used its native HDV codec so I have not used that since.

A few quick hints if you use cineform's demo Prospect 4K.

The graphic interface is a set of fundimental and functional menu and status report tiles without lots of pretties and skins.

You may find that with it installed, Premiere's own capture utility may not work. So you open HDLink instead and use that. Neither HDLink or Premiere Pro will show you a pretty picture during capture of HDV like you get when capturing MiniDV/DVCAM, so you have to view and cue with your camcorder LCD.

HDLink will capture and convert to CFHD .avi files on the fly, however it is very intensive work and your computer may fall behind and some errors creep in. I find it more worthwhile to capture to m2t and convert the files later.

It takes a little getting used to, especially making sure you name your capture files and choose where they are to go. When doing conversions, you should choose a separate folder for the destination. That way you can import a folderful of files without getting m2t files mixed up in them and taking up bin space.

Better brains than mine with more experience may come along and comment. David Newman is quick to respond to queries on the cineform showcase thread here but this should not be used to replace their trouble ticket system on their own website.

As to my ancestry, on my father's side, my grandfather and grandmother hail from Leicester England (David Attenborough country). On my pat grandmother's side they are longshanks like the Attenborough's, so there might be a line there somewhere.

My mother's side is a little more indistinct. There seems to be some proddy Irish on her father's side and a remote possibilty of Kiwi Maori on her mother's. That's about as close to the Phillipines as I can get.

Damien Krishnan · October 19th, 2008, 11:45 AM

We never had any sync problem coz we use HDMI to capture. We are using the BMD Intensity card.

Silas Barker · April 19th, 2010, 06:49 PM

Did you find out what to do with the out of sync clips?

I am haveing the same problem with a wedding - it might be the record stop starting a ton??

Any help appreciated,

Thanks

Roger Van Duyn · April 22nd, 2010, 10:52 AM

I've had this happen a few times with my Canon XH-A1 and Canon HV-30s. Once there were some dropouts on the offending tape, marked by the editing software (Avid Liquid). The other times the editor didn't detect any dropouts. Maybe it's not even the same type of glitch each time. It has happened on Sony, Panasonic, and JVC tapes, even when only one particular brand has been used in one particular camera. It appears completely random to me. It has happened on tapes that the camera was paused, and on tapes that were rolling straight through to the end.

In my experience, it's never been an entire tape out of synch, but just a portion. Recapture has never helped. The remedy that works for me has always been to:

1. Find the spot on the timeline where the audio and video go out of synch.
2. Make a cut (razor) at that point.
3. Disband the clip.
4. Determine if the video is ahead of the audio, or vice-versa
5. Slide the audio or the video track over the appropriate number of frames until in synch (I know, it's trial and error.)

It's a pain, but if you need the particular footage you just have to fix it in post. Wish I knew an iron-clad preventative measure.

Kren Barnes · April 22nd, 2010, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silas Barker

Did you find out what to do with the out of sync clips?

I am haveing the same problem with a wedding - it might be the record stop starting a ton??

Any help appreciated,

Thanks

oh yeah it is just what you've indicated..we've gotten rid of that problem by limiting our stop-record-stop to a minimum..
We've used the same solution that Roger has outlined in his post...it is a pain though when we use to do this :(

Vince Pachiano · November 8th, 2010, 03:45 PM

I typically capture my video on one PC, and then copy the AVI to another for editing.
I have noticed that when using Pinnacle 12, when I click on the AVI file, it first extracts the Audio.
Even after Pinnacle says it has extracted the Audio, I notice my CPU is still pegged at 100%
If I immediately add the scene to my timeline, then I notice the Audio is mismatched.
If I wait a minute or so, the Audio is fine

(Of course this could all be coincidental...)

Rod Pike · January 19th, 2011, 03:20 PM

I believe this is a software or computer issue. I have used tapes for years and recently with the HD1000 and not had this problem. These are digital imprints on the tape and cannot lose their relationship with each other on the camera. However, things change when they are split and captured to the computer.

I use Edius 5 and it is rock solid. I have used Edius since v3.6 and switched from Premier years ago as it was so unreliable for me anyway- blue screens, crashes, incomplete captures, unreliable rendering, you name it, I had it. In 8 years I have never had a problem with Edius. My computer is not rocket powered particularly, just dual core running XP with 2GB ram. I cannot offer a solution but I would not be looking at the camera for this problem.

September 24th, 2008, 02:29 PM	#1
Kren Barnes Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Posts: 415	AUDIO AND VIDEO not nsynch (sometimes) Hello Everyone, New to this group. I am a wedding videographer in Winnipeg ,Canada and uses the HD1000u as our main equipment. We are a 2 man crew (same cameras) that started this business last year. Hoping someone can help me in my problem: My problem lies in that ,sometimes ,when i capture the audio & video using Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 on Windows XP, the audio and video would be out of synch by less than a second. I have a brand new quad core CPU with a NVIDIA video card. An example was yesterday when i captured the ceremony with no problem, but when i popped in the reception tape and captured it , the audio was not nsync. re captured it again but same result. any inputs are appreciated. Ken from "winterpeg"

September 25th, 2008, 08:09 AM	#4
Noel Lising Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 789	Video/audio out of sync Funny I was discussing this with our in-house camera geek. He told me that when you ingest HD for editing, the video and audio would be out of sync after 8 minutes. He told me that I should cut every 8 minutes when shooting ( which is not possible coz I shoot weddings). I am not shooting HD yet but I like picking his brains. Note: He also told me that this only applies to tape format, those using tapeless format will not run into this problem. Has anyone found a solution to this yet?

April 19th, 2010, 06:49 PM	#11
Silas Barker Major Player Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sacramento, California Posts: 577	Hey Did you find out what to do with the out of sync clips? I am haveing the same problem with a wedding - it might be the record stop starting a ton?? Any help appreciated, Thanks

April 22nd, 2010, 10:52 AM	#12
Roger Van Duyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lakeland Florida Posts: 692	I've had this happen a few times with my Canon XH-A1 and Canon HV-30s. Once there were some dropouts on the offending tape, marked by the editing software (Avid Liquid). The other times the editor didn't detect any dropouts. Maybe it's not even the same type of glitch each time. It has happened on Sony, Panasonic, and JVC tapes, even when only one particular brand has been used in one particular camera. It appears completely random to me. It has happened on tapes that the camera was paused, and on tapes that were rolling straight through to the end. In my experience, it's never been an entire tape out of synch, but just a portion. Recapture has never helped. The remedy that works for me has always been to: 1. Find the spot on the timeline where the audio and video go out of synch. 2. Make a cut (razor) at that point. 3. Disband the clip. 4. Determine if the video is ahead of the audio, or vice-versa 5. Slide the audio or the video track over the appropriate number of frames until in synch (I know, it's trial and error.) It's a pain, but if you need the particular footage you just have to fix it in post. Wish I knew an iron-clad preventative measure. __________________ Roger My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAp...2AHr_pHFID5LDA Last edited by Roger Van Duyn; April 22nd, 2010 at 10:54 AM. Reason: another comment

September 24th, 2008, 10:48 PM	#3
Kren Barnes Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Posts: 415	Thanks William My editor friend told me that it could be also the non stop pausing and starting of the camera when im shooting footages. Your thoughts? These are brand new cameras (barely a month old) . On Adobe PP it shows if you have a dropped frame and in this case does not indicate that there are any. We are currently using Sony Premium Tapes.

September 25th, 2008, 09:10 AM	#5
Kren Barnes Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Posts: 415	Thanks Noel Actually i've shoot footages 60 minutes straight and capturing it was fine. We've had on a couple occassions run into the same problem with using cameras with hard drive formats (SR1) now im thinking it is because of the bad camera pauses i take when shooting..i have to call the A/V guy where we got the cameras from and get his 2 cents...

September 25th, 2008, 09:18 AM	#6
Noel Lising Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 789	Hi Kren, Do you have clips to share? want to see HD1000 in action.

September 25th, 2008, 09:51 AM	#7
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Kren. In Premiere Pro, are you using its own HDV setting for capturing and editing in? Try the Cineform Prospect 4K trial and see if that makes the problem go away. It can be found at CineForm Home Page. If you are already using cineform's plug-in then please ignore my suggestion.

September 25th, 2008, 10:58 PM	#8
Kren Barnes Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Posts: 415	Hi Bob, Yes we are.. I will certainly try your suggestion, however my hunch is that it is my incessant use of the pause and restart button. Noel, Here is the HD1000u in action.. YouTube - Vertical Video Works Also, are you of Filipino descent?

September 26th, 2008, 12:55 AM	#9
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Kren. When using two Z1 cameras on long takes of a 35 minute ceremonial court sitting, I used cineform, captured entire tapes and had no problems. However I have used cineform from the outset for HDV and knew no different I did a multicamera of a music performance. The performer also has Adobe Premiere Pro but no cineform so wanted it to be Premiere's native codec for subsequent post work on his computer, so I obliged. On capture, the second camera footage was as you describe, incrementally shorter through the entire clip. I took the m2t file into HDLink and converted the entire capture without problems. I did not choose the split scene option in the menu. I finished the entire project in cineform. I found that Premiere was more glitchy, inclined to forget itself, apologise then shut down when I used its native HDV codec so I have not used that since. A few quick hints if you use cineform's demo Prospect 4K. The graphic interface is a set of fundimental and functional menu and status report tiles without lots of pretties and skins. You may find that with it installed, Premiere's own capture utility may not work. So you open HDLink instead and use that. Neither HDLink or Premiere Pro will show you a pretty picture during capture of HDV like you get when capturing MiniDV/DVCAM, so you have to view and cue with your camcorder LCD. HDLink will capture and convert to CFHD .avi files on the fly, however it is very intensive work and your computer may fall behind and some errors creep in. I find it more worthwhile to capture to m2t and convert the files later. It takes a little getting used to, especially making sure you name your capture files and choose where they are to go. When doing conversions, you should choose a separate folder for the destination. That way you can import a folderful of files without getting m2t files mixed up in them and taking up bin space. Better brains than mine with more experience may come along and comment. David Newman is quick to respond to queries on the cineform showcase thread here but this should not be used to replace their trouble ticket system on their own website. As to my ancestry, on my father's side, my grandfather and grandmother hail from Leicester England (David Attenborough country). On my pat grandmother's side they are longshanks like the Attenborough's, so there might be a line there somewhere. My mother's side is a little more indistinct. There seems to be some proddy Irish on her father's side and a remote possibilty of Kiwi Maori on her mother's. That's about as close to the Phillipines as I can get.

October 19th, 2008, 11:45 AM	#10
Damien Krishnan New Boot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 11	We never had any sync problem coz we use HDMI to capture. We are using the BMD Intensity card.

November 8th, 2010, 03:45 PM	#14
Vince Pachiano Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 307	I typically capture my video on one PC, and then copy the AVI to another for editing. I have noticed that when using Pinnacle 12, when I click on the AVI file, it first extracts the Audio. Even after Pinnacle says it has extracted the Audio, I notice my CPU is still pegged at 100% If I immediately add the scene to my timeline, then I notice the Audio is mismatched. If I wait a minute or so, the Audio is fine (Of course this could all be coincidental...)

January 19th, 2011, 03:20 PM	#15
Rod Pike Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: new zealand Posts: 52	I believe this is a software or computer issue. I have used tapes for years and recently with the HD1000 and not had this problem. These are digital imprints on the tape and cannot lose their relationship with each other on the camera. However, things change when they are split and captured to the computer. I use Edius 5 and it is rock solid. I have used Edius since v3.6 and switched from Premier years ago as it was so unreliable for me anyway- blue screens, crashes, incomplete captures, unreliable rendering, you name it, I had it. In 8 years I have never had a problem with Edius. My computer is not rocket powered particularly, just dual core running XP with 2GB ram. I cannot offer a solution but I would not be looking at the camera for this problem.