Let's talk about the HDR-HC5 and HDR-HC7!

Colin Sato · February 3rd, 2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Irving

How would you guys be mounting the Rode Videomic onto the Sony AIS, out of curiosity?

This was suggested to me for this quandry

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

Tom Hardwick · February 3rd, 2007, 12:46 PM

If you're very intrigued by the low light capabilities claimed for the HC7, it would suggest that low light performance is high on your priority list? If so, then the PD170 is king of the hill, and unlikely to be surplanted by a camcorder that has a pixel density 4x greater and pixels that are getting on for a quarter of the size.

The Panasonic DVC with its much smaller chips is also not in the running, and dropping the shutter speed to 1/30th to claw back lux levels is sorta cheating in my view. What are PAL users supposed to do - drop to 1/25th? That really does become obvious on screen.

But whereas the HC7 is a 16:9 camera right out of the box, the DVC and PD are really only 4:3 shooters. This may be fine for your instructional videos but wwill be a lot less good for any serious filmmaking ideas you may have in the future.

tom.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 3rd, 2007, 12:57 PM

Tom,
What you say as a whole is very much true, but you're also discounting the technological advancements of the DSP and pixel management.
The HC7 is very impressive, and while it's not as clean as a PD150, there is no point in looking backwards, IMO. No HD camcorder with small chips will ever be as clean as that cam was. That said, +9dB of gain on the HC7 or most any other Sony camcorder is ridiculously more clean than equal amounts of gain applied to the DV signal in a PD.
DSP has come a long, long way in the past 2-3 years, whether we're discussing Panasonic, Sony, Canon, or JVC.
I had the opportunity to work with the HC7 for nearly 2 weeks as a reviewer, and was exceptionally impressed with the bang for buck, and image in low light as compared to most other HD camcorders in the sub 5K range.

Tom Hardwick · February 3rd, 2007, 01:20 PM

Quite right DSE. I've been forced into a corner and had to shoot an entire wedding service at +18dB of gain up on the Z1. Scared me to death as I was doing it as I shuddered if asked to up the PD's gain beyond +6dB, but all turned out well on the Z1's timeline. I had to bump the colour saturation a smidgen, that's all.

As you say, DSP has come a long, long way.

tom.

Ruth Happel · February 3rd, 2007, 01:27 PM

Douglas,

I see from this thread you have been playing with the HC7, a camera I am currently considering. From some of your other posts, I know you also have some experience with the Canon HV10. Other cameras I am also thinking of buying include the upcoming Canon HV20, and possibly the recently announced (at CES) JVC Everio GZHD7, or maybe some of the soon to be released AVCHD models from Sony and Panasonic.

Since my background is mainly audio, I want good audio (at least the ability to connect external mics). I also am very interested in low light, since most of my video is wildlife, often shot in dim forest lighting. I wonder if you have a sense of which of these cameras might be best for me. I am planning two trips, one to CA later this month, and one to NC in April, and would prefer to buy sooner than later. But if one of the soon to be released cameras is incredibly better than what is available now, I'd like your perspective on that. I appreciate that you can't know all the variables and it's too early to judge many of the camcorders on the verge of being sold, but since you have lots of experience with these cameras, I'd appreciate your perspective.

Although I have looked into the prosumer models (the upper limit of my budget) I am leaning toward the smaller consumer models because I generally carry a lot of audio and still photo gear, and there is a limit to how much I want to carry on a typical fieldwork day as a single person production unit. Thanks.

Ruth

Stu Holmes · February 3rd, 2007, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Irving

How would you guys be mounting the Rode Videomic onto the Sony AIS, out of curiosity?

You can either use a bracket that screws into the tripod socket like this one :

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

or you can use an adaptor like the excellent Jeff DeMaagd AIS-to-coldshoe adaptor :

http://www.dm-accessories.com/AIS-FLAT.php

either of these will allow mounting of Videomic to the cam.

Stacy Rothwell · February 3rd, 2007, 10:08 PM

Got my HC7 a couple of days ago.... don't know how.... Sony Style still says shipping on Feb 19th..... guess I ordered early and was lucky.

What an awesome camera for the price. I also own a Z1U. My wife doesn't like the Z1U (too many knobs and switches and too heavy).

I am very impressed with this tiny little camera. The still pictures seem to be about the same exact quality as my sony 6MP still camera, but it's no Nikon! Video in low light I think less than the Z1U, but then compare prices and specs. Gotta tell you, for taking videos and pictures of the kids, vacations, etc the size and portability definitely out weigh (no pun intended) carrying around the Z1U and a D70!

Still experimenting, but am having a ton of fun giving my 4-year old permission to jump all over the pillows on furniture and dumping toys all over the floor to test the 240fps Smooth Slow Record. Really cool watching the output!

Best regards

Michael Eskin · February 4th, 2007, 12:42 AM

Hi Stacy,

You're the first person I've found who has an HC7, looking forward to anything you can tell us! I'm particularly interested in the low light capability. Any chance you might be able to post some short sample clips?

Cheers and thanks,

Michael

Tom Hardwick · February 4th, 2007, 02:43 AM

And how's the low light when you're in the 240 fps mode, Stacy? I imagine the camera needs to open the aperture by 3 whole stops, or go into +18dB of gain-up mode.

tom.

George Ellis · February 4th, 2007, 09:48 AM

DSE, I think you missed my post. Did you ever get to make that sky dive with the HC7? How did it workout in extreme sports ops?

TIA

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 4th, 2007, 10:22 AM

George, the HC7 performed very well under opening shock and high speeds. It's a great little camera, no doubt. It shifts exposure very quickly and without a bloom between exposure settings.

Paulo Teixeira · February 4th, 2007, 06:38 PM

I’m usually the type of person that will use the manual focusing ring more so than auto especially when I’m using an HC1 or a Z1u but since the HC7 doesn’t have a focusing ring around the lens, how is the auto focusing compared to either the Z1u or the HC1. I do complain about the HC20 not having a focusing ring around the lens but at least I cannot complain about the way it may handle auto focus because the HV10 does it extremely well and the HV20 should be even better.

George Ellis · February 4th, 2007, 08:24 PM

Thanks DSE! Glad to hear it. Looks like it is the helmet cam for HDV then. With all the other stuff, I can use it for all the other site shots. With the 3 second high-speed, it will be killer for adding super-slow jumps. Add the Beachtek, headphones, and shotgun for other material. What a sweet package for small form and mobility.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 4th, 2007, 11:22 PM

Bear in mind that the super slow mo is reduced quality, so you'll want to take that into consideration. However, I'm also looking forward to trying some super slo mo, even if it only ends up on youtube.

Kris Galuska · February 5th, 2007, 01:57 PM

Just Got the HC7 instock at B&H, but we haven't put it on display yet.

Didn't get to much time to play with it, but it feels great in the hand, and on the screen it looks similar to the FX7.

-Kris G

EDIT: They just pulled it out of our system. I don't know why.

February 3rd, 2007, 12:57 PM	#33
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Tom, What you say as a whole is very much true, but you're also discounting the technological advancements of the DSP and pixel management. The HC7 is very impressive, and while it's not as clean as a PD150, there is no point in looking backwards, IMO. No HD camcorder with small chips will ever be as clean as that cam was. That said, +9dB of gain on the HC7 or most any other Sony camcorder is ridiculously more clean than equal amounts of gain applied to the DV signal in a PD. DSP has come a long, long way in the past 2-3 years, whether we're discussing Panasonic, Sony, Canon, or JVC. I had the opportunity to work with the HC7 for nearly 2 weeks as a reviewer, and was exceptionally impressed with the bang for buck, and image in low light as compared to most other HD camcorders in the sub 5K range. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 3rd, 2007, 10:08 PM	#37
Stacy Rothwell Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 112	Got my HC7 a couple of days ago....... Got my HC7 a couple of days ago.... don't know how.... Sony Style still says shipping on Feb 19th..... guess I ordered early and was lucky. What an awesome camera for the price. I also own a Z1U. My wife doesn't like the Z1U (too many knobs and switches and too heavy). I am very impressed with this tiny little camera. The still pictures seem to be about the same exact quality as my sony 6MP still camera, but it's no Nikon! Video in low light I think less than the Z1U, but then compare prices and specs. Gotta tell you, for taking videos and pictures of the kids, vacations, etc the size and portability definitely out weigh (no pun intended) carrying around the Z1U and a D70! Still experimenting, but am having a ton of fun giving my 4-year old permission to jump all over the pillows on furniture and dumping toys all over the floor to test the 240fps Smooth Slow Record. Really cool watching the output! Best regards

February 4th, 2007, 10:22 AM	#41
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	George, the HC7 performed very well under opening shock and high speeds. It's a great little camera, no doubt. It shifts exposure very quickly and without a bloom between exposure settings. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 4th, 2007, 06:38 PM	#42
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	I’m usually the type of person that will use the manual focusing ring more so than auto especially when I’m using an HC1 or a Z1u but since the HC7 doesn’t have a focusing ring around the lens, how is the auto focusing compared to either the Z1u or the HC1. I do complain about the HC20 not having a focusing ring around the lens but at least I cannot complain about the way it may handle auto focus because the HV10 does it extremely well and the HV20 should be even better. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

February 4th, 2007, 11:22 PM	#44
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Bear in mind that the super slow mo is reduced quality, so you'll want to take that into consideration. However, I'm also looking forward to trying some super slo mo, even if it only ends up on youtube. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 3rd, 2007, 12:46 PM	#32
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	If you're very intrigued by the low light capabilities claimed for the HC7, it would suggest that low light performance is high on your priority list? If so, then the PD170 is king of the hill, and unlikely to be surplanted by a camcorder that has a pixel density 4x greater and pixels that are getting on for a quarter of the size. The Panasonic DVC with its much smaller chips is also not in the running, and dropping the shutter speed to 1/30th to claw back lux levels is sorta cheating in my view. What are PAL users supposed to do - drop to 1/25th? That really does become obvious on screen. But whereas the HC7 is a 16:9 camera right out of the box, the DVC and PD are really only 4:3 shooters. This may be fine for your instructional videos but wwill be a lot less good for any serious filmmaking ideas you may have in the future. tom.

February 3rd, 2007, 01:20 PM	#34
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Quite right DSE. I've been forced into a corner and had to shoot an entire wedding service at +18dB of gain up on the Z1. Scared me to death as I was doing it as I shuddered if asked to up the PD's gain beyond +6dB, but all turned out well on the Z1's timeline. I had to bump the colour saturation a smidgen, that's all. As you say, DSP has come a long, long way. tom.

February 3rd, 2007, 01:27 PM	#35
Ruth Happel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Black Mountain, NC Posts: 488	Douglas, I see from this thread you have been playing with the HC7, a camera I am currently considering. From some of your other posts, I know you also have some experience with the Canon HV10. Other cameras I am also thinking of buying include the upcoming Canon HV20, and possibly the recently announced (at CES) JVC Everio GZHD7, or maybe some of the soon to be released AVCHD models from Sony and Panasonic. Since my background is mainly audio, I want good audio (at least the ability to connect external mics). I also am very interested in low light, since most of my video is wildlife, often shot in dim forest lighting. I wonder if you have a sense of which of these cameras might be best for me. I am planning two trips, one to CA later this month, and one to NC in April, and would prefer to buy sooner than later. But if one of the soon to be released cameras is incredibly better than what is available now, I'd like your perspective on that. I appreciate that you can't know all the variables and it's too early to judge many of the camcorders on the verge of being sold, but since you have lots of experience with these cameras, I'd appreciate your perspective. Although I have looked into the prosumer models (the upper limit of my budget) I am leaning toward the smaller consumer models because I generally carry a lot of audio and still photo gear, and there is a limit to how much I want to carry on a typical fieldwork day as a single person production unit. Thanks. Ruth

February 4th, 2007, 12:42 AM	#38
Michael Eskin Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73	Hi Stacy, You're the first person I've found who has an HC7, looking forward to anything you can tell us! I'm particularly interested in the low light capability. Any chance you might be able to post some short sample clips? Cheers and thanks, Michael

February 4th, 2007, 02:43 AM	#39
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	And how's the low light when you're in the 240 fps mode, Stacy? I imagine the camera needs to open the aperture by 3 whole stops, or go into +18dB of gain-up mode. tom.

February 4th, 2007, 09:48 AM	#40
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	DSE, I think you missed my post. Did you ever get to make that sky dive with the HC7? How did it workout in extreme sports ops? TIA

February 4th, 2007, 08:24 PM	#43
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Thanks DSE! Glad to hear it. Looks like it is the helmet cam for HDV then. With all the other stuff, I can use it for all the other site shots. With the 3 second high-speed, it will be killer for adding super-slow jumps. Add the Beachtek, headphones, and shotgun for other material. What a sweet package for small form and mobility.

February 5th, 2007, 01:57 PM	#45
Kris Galuska Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NY, NY Posts: 59	Just Got the HC7 instock at B&H, but we haven't put it on display yet. Didn't get to much time to play with it, but it feels great in the hand, and on the screen it looks similar to the FX7. -Kris G EDIT: They just pulled it out of our system. I don't know why. Last edited by Kris Galuska; February 5th, 2007 at 04:38 PM.