has anyone provided A1 and HC1 comparison? at DVinfo.net

Kaku Ito · October 21st, 2005, 09:16 PM

I added A1 to my rig list and I can do comparison between HC1, A1 and FX1.

I noticed that the A1's zoom rings works a lot more direct comparing to HC1 (probably they tuned it that way?).

Any suggestions for the comparison?

Eki Halkka · October 22nd, 2005, 04:41 AM

Hi!

Well, i'd really like to see the following test...

Take each of the cameras, and shoot a wide city scene with moving cars people etc., using a tripod, in harsh, bright daylight, with some areas of the images in shadow - try to make the framing the same for each camera.

Set the zebra to 100%, and expose manually so that nothing in the picture is overexposed (reduce exposure untill there's no zebra seen anywhere, even in the sky - remember to adjust the exposure after you change each setting).

Do this with

1. the default settings (straight gamma, no black stretch or backlight compensation)

2. all available cine gamma settings,

3. black stretch on/off if available,

4. backlight compensation on/off if available.

This test is to see which camera has the best ability to capture a low contrast image with as much latitude as possible. The aim is to have as much detail in the shadows as possible, without overexposing the highlights.

To test resolution with "cine look", first shoot the scene with 50/60i. Then try shutter speed of 25/30 if available (using a slow shutter speed gives "film look" cadence with 50/60i). Finally shoot the same scene with cineframe.

This test will show how much real life resolution is lost using the film look solutions that are available in the camera - in other words, is it useable this way, or should it always be done in post production.

Next test would be the sharpening (detail) settings of the cameras: shoot the same scene with detail at minimum, medium and maximum settings for each camera. This test will help determining the best compromise between sharpness and the artifacts (edge ringing) introduced by the sharpening algorithms.

If you really want to spend a bit time on it, do these last tests (cineframe, shutter, sharpening) also with a resolution chart: you can download and print one from here:

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~wes...res-chart.html

direct link to pdf:

http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~wes...3-reschart.pdf

...if you do these tests for us, i'd be a very happy camper.

;-)

...one more thing, could you please also do the resolution tests with "full scan" or "steady shot" setting in on/off positions with the small cams.

Alexey Malyshev · October 27th, 2005, 05:24 AM

It would be great to see those comparisons. Can't wait to see.
Alex

John Grzinich · January 17th, 2006, 04:54 AM

Has anyone done the test Eki has suggested?

As I understand the HC1 and A1 are essentially the same camera apart from the xlr audio mount shoe on the A1.

I'm also curious about the 'real world' differences between the A1 and FX1 since the price difference is not terribly significant. I've read on the board somewhere that the FX1 does slightly better in low light situations, but the image quality is fairly similar.

Might a 3CCD chip have more lattitude in post-production processing then?

Tracey Lee · January 17th, 2006, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Grzinich

Has anyone done the test Eki has suggested?

As I understand the HC1 and A1 are essentially the same camera apart from the xlr audio mount shoe on the A1.

Yes, I believe the HC1 and A1 are essentially the same camera(except for the xlr audio/ mount shoe), and have also been such advised by stores selling both these cameras. But for someone to do actual testing and post the results would be great!

Tracey

Fredrik-Larsson · January 18th, 2006, 01:05 AM

I think there are more features and manual controls in the A1 to. Blackstretch is one of those.

Mark Bryant · January 18th, 2006, 01:29 AM

Correct - the core "hardware" is the same - same lens, CMOS, etc. But the A1 has additional features and controls. "Blackstretch" is one of the more significant ones.

Mark

Tracey Lee · January 18th, 2006, 07:50 PM

Yes, thats what I'd thought too, until a while back someone advised that whilst backstretch is listed as a feature of the A1, that they discovered the HC1 had backstretch built in anyway. ???? I must say, I have heard different things from different people about the differences/similiarities between the HC1 and A1 to the point of confusion. Obviously there are some differences. But at this point, actual technical testing of the 2 camera's side to side would prove a few things about the differences between the 2 cameras and would be most welcome in my books. :)

Mark Bryant · January 19th, 2006, 01:44 AM

Tracey,

Interesting.

What is clear is that while the camera hardware is basically the same, the software/firmware is different, and the A1 has many more controls - blackstretch is one. The HC1 has no control to turn blackstretch on or off... but it could be permanently turned on - I've not heard that, but it is possible. Agree a test would be good.

Mark

Wayne Morellini · January 19th, 2006, 09:01 AM

I've heard the different shooting modes give different results. It would be good to test the latitude, curve and sensitivity of each mode.

Denise Haskew · January 25th, 2006, 08:12 AM

You could check out www.showreel.org/memberarea. If you scroll down to cinematography section there are a few artciles that go into quite a bit of detail about the comparisons.

Denise

October 21st, 2005, 09:16 PM	#1
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	has anyone provided A1 and HC1 comparison? I added A1 to my rig list and I can do comparison between HC1, A1 and FX1. I noticed that the A1's zoom rings works a lot more direct comparing to HC1 (probably they tuned it that way?). Any suggestions for the comparison?

October 22nd, 2005, 04:41 AM	#2
Eki Halkka Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 32	Hi! Well, i'd really like to see the following test... Take each of the cameras, and shoot a wide city scene with moving cars people etc., using a tripod, in harsh, bright daylight, with some areas of the images in shadow - try to make the framing the same for each camera. Set the zebra to 100%, and expose manually so that nothing in the picture is overexposed (reduce exposure untill there's no zebra seen anywhere, even in the sky - remember to adjust the exposure after you change each setting). Do this with 1. the default settings (straight gamma, no black stretch or backlight compensation) 2. all available cine gamma settings, 3. black stretch on/off if available, 4. backlight compensation on/off if available. This test is to see which camera has the best ability to capture a low contrast image with as much latitude as possible. The aim is to have as much detail in the shadows as possible, without overexposing the highlights. To test resolution with "cine look", first shoot the scene with 50/60i. Then try shutter speed of 25/30 if available (using a slow shutter speed gives "film look" cadence with 50/60i). Finally shoot the same scene with cineframe. This test will show how much real life resolution is lost using the film look solutions that are available in the camera - in other words, is it useable this way, or should it always be done in post production. Next test would be the sharpening (detail) settings of the cameras: shoot the same scene with detail at minimum, medium and maximum settings for each camera. This test will help determining the best compromise between sharpness and the artifacts (edge ringing) introduced by the sharpening algorithms. If you really want to spend a bit time on it, do these last tests (cineframe, shutter, sharpening) also with a resolution chart: you can download and print one from here: http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~wes...res-chart.html direct link to pdf: http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~wes...3-reschart.pdf ...if you do these tests for us, i'd be a very happy camper. ;-) ...one more thing, could you please also do the resolution tests with "full scan" or "steady shot" setting in on/off positions with the small cams. Last edited by Eki Halkka; October 22nd, 2005 at 04:58 AM. Reason: Clarified the shutter settings a bit (50/60i) - Addene full scan

January 17th, 2006, 04:54 AM	#4
John Grzinich New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Baltic States of... Posts: 12	test? Has anyone done the test Eki has suggested? As I understand the HC1 and A1 are essentially the same camera apart from the xlr audio mount shoe on the A1. I'm also curious about the 'real world' differences between the A1 and FX1 since the price difference is not terribly significant. I've read on the board somewhere that the FX1 does slightly better in low light situations, but the image quality is fairly similar. Might a 3CCD chip have more lattitude in post-production processing then?

January 18th, 2006, 01:05 AM	#6
Fredrik-Larsson Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Malmö, Sweden Posts: 395	I think there are more features and manual controls in the A1 to. Blackstretch is one of those. __________________ The Russian Captain (upcoming feature) http://trc-movie.blogspot.com/ My movies http://www.larssonfilm.com/

January 25th, 2006, 08:12 AM	#11
Denise Haskew Showreel Magazine UK Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Brighton, UK Posts: 41	A1,HC1,X1 tests You could check out www.showreel.org/memberarea. If you scroll down to cinematography section there are a few artciles that go into quite a bit of detail about the comparisons. Denise

October 27th, 2005, 05:24 AM	#3
Alexey Malyshev New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fairbanks, AK Posts: 16	It would be great to see those comparisons. Can't wait to see. Alex

January 18th, 2006, 01:29 AM	#7
Mark Bryant Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bath, England Posts: 119	Correct - the core "hardware" is the same - same lens, CMOS, etc. But the A1 has additional features and controls. "Blackstretch" is one of the more significant ones. Mark

January 18th, 2006, 07:50 PM	#8
Tracey Lee New Boot Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 8	Yes, thats what I'd thought too, until a while back someone advised that whilst backstretch is listed as a feature of the A1, that they discovered the HC1 had backstretch built in anyway. ???? I must say, I have heard different things from different people about the differences/similiarities between the HC1 and A1 to the point of confusion. Obviously there are some differences. But at this point, actual technical testing of the 2 camera's side to side would prove a few things about the differences between the 2 cameras and would be most welcome in my books. :)

January 19th, 2006, 01:44 AM	#9
Mark Bryant Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bath, England Posts: 119	Tracey, Interesting. What is clear is that while the camera hardware is basically the same, the software/firmware is different, and the A1 has many more controls - blackstretch is one. The HC1 has no control to turn blackstretch on or off... but it could be permanently turned on - I've not heard that, but it is possible. Agree a test would be good. Mark

January 19th, 2006, 09:01 AM	#10
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	I've heard the different shooting modes give different results. It would be good to test the latitude, curve and sensitivity of each mode.