Advice for amateur? at DVinfo.net

Stuart Bloom · July 20th, 2005, 08:02 AM

For the last 18 months I've been shooting travel clips with the JVC HD-10U. It's limitations are clear. I have been carefully reading all the posts about the HC-1 and the expected GY-HD100U, which I saw at the NAB. Many differences are obvious. Late this September I will again be leaving for a unique destination that I very much want to have a good video record of. Is the upgrade to the HC-1 from the HD-10 worthwhile, or would it be necessary to wait for the JVC for there to be enough of a difference to warrant the additional costs? I edit using FCP 5.0 on a dual 2.5 Mac. I appreciate and value your suggestions.

Ken Hodson · July 20th, 2005, 07:16 PM

If you outline which limitations of the HD10 affect you the most, it will help others give their opinions. The two cams you are considering upgrading to are as different as any two cams could get while still recording versions of the same format.

Stuart Bloom · July 20th, 2005, 07:54 PM

In viewing the results on a large screen I found areas where the color accuracy was definitely off. Another frustration was the inability to manually adjust total exposure. The obvious increase in gain when panning to a darker area left me unsure how to deal with it. Some scenes suggested a slightly darker exposure to get the effect I wanted, but the HD10 would increase shutter time or aperture if the other was locked. On the audio side, the agc made recording a piano unrealistic. There is apparently no way to turn it off. Lastly, I'm hoping for better resolution than with the HD10. Thanks.

Ken Hodson · July 20th, 2005, 08:56 PM

Yes the HD10 requires a high degree of shooting knowledge. You really need to master filters and understand how the exposure lock or shutter lock work for different situations. The HC-1 as well has no manual aperture control, so your complains will not be fixed by that cam. Your audio complaint is legit. I have no idea how the HC-1 would handle that. The HD100 will have no problems with that for sure. As far as resolution goes, the HC-1 captures to a higher format(1080i vs, 720p), but it is interlaced and reportedly less detail then a FX/Z-1. Hd10 is very close in detail level to a FX/Z-1 with some saying the HD10 slightly more.
Have you considered a FX-1? It may be the best compromise between them all.

Stuart Bloom · July 20th, 2005, 09:58 PM

Thanks Ken, for your observations. I completely agree that in the hands of a pro the HD10 is far more capable than what I have been able to achieve so far, though some of my clips have come out beautifully. (Beginner's luck?) I have read all the manuals and viewed training DVDs on the JVC, and used ND filters when I thought appropriate, but there is no substitute for working with a good mentor. The fellow who is my FCP tutor has a professional video production company and does his own captures. He spent some time with the FX1 and indicated he liked the results from the HD10 better. I realize there have been no evaluation posts yet on the HD100 but wonder if the specs would suggest a major improvement in image quality over the HC1? I'm guessing the 100 will allow me more control over the total exposure value and not have the obvious gain pumping when panning to darker areas. My trip in Sept. is a government sanctioned medical conference in Cuba. The opportunity to film there will probably never happen again and I want to do all that I can to optimize the results of my shooting.

Ken Hodson · July 21st, 2005, 02:06 AM

"I'm guessing the 100 will allow me more control over the total exposure value and not have the obvious gain pumping when panning to darker areas."
That is your auto exposure fluxuating. If you do not lock it, it will auto adjust when you pan to dark or bright areas. Try locking it if you don't mind the look of the corresponding 1/30th shutter(gives a film like motion blur). Or lock at 1/60th shutter and ND filter down untill the auto exposure does not enguage. The Hd100 should have the best picture of any HDV product yet, and will for sure best the HC-1, which is a lesser cam then Sony's higher end FX/Z-1's. The HD100 will have full manual pro control and will carry a pro price tag to match.

Stuart Bloom · July 21st, 2005, 04:27 PM

Thank you Ken, that was very useful information. The HD10 does not allow me to easily lock the auto-exposure, which has caused most of my difficulty. Many times in traveling, I don't have time to experiment with different filters and settings. I spoke with JVC pro tech support and they had no solution to that problem either. If the HC-1 image is not that significantly better than the HD-10, then it would seem foolish to acquire it. Apparently, to get a noticeable improvement would require the new JVC. One advantage is that I already own the CU-VH1 deck so would not have to acquire a new one to handle 1080i. I see another big learning curve ahead of me, but that helps keep life interesting.:) The HD100 should provide me the best chance to capture worthwhile footage for my short time in Cuba.

Ken Hodson · July 21st, 2005, 07:55 PM

The HD100 will undoubtably give you the best picture with an HDV cam. It has been said that it ships with only a 30min battery and not tri-pod mount.
As far as locking exposure on your HD10, set the cam to "M" manual mode, stabilize the cam, adjust the exposure with the wheel. Press wheel button in untill an "L" (Lock) apears on the screen. The exposure will not fluxuate after you do this.
Why tech support could not help you with this, does not say much for JVC tech support. It is also in the joke-of-a-manual that came with the cam.

Stuart Bloom · July 21st, 2005, 08:24 PM

Your information is extremely helpful. I have been aware of the battery and mounting problems and am still researching the best approachs, particularly for the power problem, since I expect much of my camera use will be in mobile situations. I will need to determine if it is best to buy additional batteries from JVC or see if there are 3d party compatible units of higher capacity. I have noted the solution to exposure locking the HD-10. Thanks again.

July 20th, 2005, 08:02 AM	#1
Stuart Bloom New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: los angeles Posts: 7	Upgrade HD10 to HC1 or HD100? For the last 18 months I've been shooting travel clips with the JVC HD-10U. It's limitations are clear. I have been carefully reading all the posts about the HC-1 and the expected GY-HD100U, which I saw at the NAB. Many differences are obvious. Late this September I will again be leaving for a unique destination that I very much want to have a good video record of. Is the upgrade to the HC-1 from the HD-10 worthwhile, or would it be necessary to wait for the JVC for there to be enough of a difference to warrant the additional costs? I edit using FCP 5.0 on a dual 2.5 Mac. I appreciate and value your suggestions. Last edited by Stuart Bloom; July 20th, 2005 at 07:13 PM.

July 20th, 2005, 07:16 PM	#2
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	If you outline which limitations of the HD10 affect you the most, it will help others give their opinions. The two cams you are considering upgrading to are as different as any two cams could get while still recording versions of the same format. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

July 20th, 2005, 08:56 PM	#4
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Yes the HD10 requires a high degree of shooting knowledge. You really need to master filters and understand how the exposure lock or shutter lock work for different situations. The HC-1 as well has no manual aperture control, so your complains will not be fixed by that cam. Your audio complaint is legit. I have no idea how the HC-1 would handle that. The HD100 will have no problems with that for sure. As far as resolution goes, the HC-1 captures to a higher format(1080i vs, 720p), but it is interlaced and reportedly less detail then a FX/Z-1. Hd10 is very close in detail level to a FX/Z-1 with some saying the HD10 slightly more. Have you considered a FX-1? It may be the best compromise between them all. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

July 21st, 2005, 02:06 AM	#6
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	"I'm guessing the 100 will allow me more control over the total exposure value and not have the obvious gain pumping when panning to darker areas." That is your auto exposure fluxuating. If you do not lock it, it will auto adjust when you pan to dark or bright areas. Try locking it if you don't mind the look of the corresponding 1/30th shutter(gives a film like motion blur). Or lock at 1/60th shutter and ND filter down untill the auto exposure does not enguage. The Hd100 should have the best picture of any HDV product yet, and will for sure best the HC-1, which is a lesser cam then Sony's higher end FX/Z-1's. The HD100 will have full manual pro control and will carry a pro price tag to match. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

July 21st, 2005, 07:55 PM	#8
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	The HD100 will undoubtably give you the best picture with an HDV cam. It has been said that it ships with only a 30min battery and not tri-pod mount. As far as locking exposure on your HD10, set the cam to "M" manual mode, stabilize the cam, adjust the exposure with the wheel. Press wheel button in untill an "L" (Lock) apears on the screen. The exposure will not fluxuate after you do this. Why tech support could not help you with this, does not say much for JVC tech support. It is also in the joke-of-a-manual that came with the cam. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

July 20th, 2005, 07:54 PM	#3
Stuart Bloom New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: los angeles Posts: 7	In viewing the results on a large screen I found areas where the color accuracy was definitely off. Another frustration was the inability to manually adjust total exposure. The obvious increase in gain when panning to a darker area left me unsure how to deal with it. Some scenes suggested a slightly darker exposure to get the effect I wanted, but the HD10 would increase shutter time or aperture if the other was locked. On the audio side, the agc made recording a piano unrealistic. There is apparently no way to turn it off. Lastly, I'm hoping for better resolution than with the HD10. Thanks.

July 20th, 2005, 09:58 PM	#5
Stuart Bloom New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: los angeles Posts: 7	Thanks Ken, for your observations. I completely agree that in the hands of a pro the HD10 is far more capable than what I have been able to achieve so far, though some of my clips have come out beautifully. (Beginner's luck?) I have read all the manuals and viewed training DVDs on the JVC, and used ND filters when I thought appropriate, but there is no substitute for working with a good mentor. The fellow who is my FCP tutor has a professional video production company and does his own captures. He spent some time with the FX1 and indicated he liked the results from the HD10 better. I realize there have been no evaluation posts yet on the HD100 but wonder if the specs would suggest a major improvement in image quality over the HC1? I'm guessing the 100 will allow me more control over the total exposure value and not have the obvious gain pumping when panning to darker areas. My trip in Sept. is a government sanctioned medical conference in Cuba. The opportunity to film there will probably never happen again and I want to do all that I can to optimize the results of my shooting.

July 21st, 2005, 04:27 PM	#7
Stuart Bloom New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: los angeles Posts: 7	Thank you Ken, that was very useful information. The HD10 does not allow me to easily lock the auto-exposure, which has caused most of my difficulty. Many times in traveling, I don't have time to experiment with different filters and settings. I spoke with JVC pro tech support and they had no solution to that problem either. If the HC-1 image is not that significantly better than the HD-10, then it would seem foolish to acquire it. Apparently, to get a noticeable improvement would require the new JVC. One advantage is that I already own the CU-VH1 deck so would not have to acquire a new one to handle 1080i. I see another big learning curve ahead of me, but that helps keep life interesting.:) The HD100 should provide me the best chance to capture worthwhile footage for my short time in Cuba.

July 21st, 2005, 08:24 PM	#9
Stuart Bloom New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: los angeles Posts: 7	Your information is extremely helpful. I have been aware of the battery and mounting problems and am still researching the best approachs, particularly for the power problem, since I expect much of my camera use will be in mobile situations. I will need to determine if it is best to buy additional batteries from JVC or see if there are 3d party compatible units of higher capacity. I have noted the solution to exposure locking the HD-10. Thanks again.