Various questions Sony HC1 at DVinfo.net

Wayne Morellini · June 30th, 2005, 10:59 AM

Ways around aperture/gain/iris controls on HC1?

I am a bit confused to the exact nature of exposure control behaviour, but I think there are some ways around the major drawbacks in the camcorders controls.

Simple stuff most of us know:
Zoom/Focus. In professional movie making they prefer to physically move the position of the camera back and forward and side to side. Learning to do this you only would have to use the zoom on occasion, leaving you free to ride the focus.

Shutter control. In film they usually stick with one speed for a consistent look, pick the best speed for look and lock it till light is too low. This then leaves gain and aperture in full auto (the two that I don't want in full auto).

A part solution. Aperture and gain control:
Make a HD SLR lens adaptor (research is still on going in the alternative imaging forums and progress is coming along) and use it's iris. I assume you can lock the exposure to one position. So would turning the manual exposure control so that the iris opened up and locking it (with shutter locked) do the trick? Otherwise, you could cover the front of the lens with something black (say a lens cap) to force it to open and then lock. Now you can use the iris on the SLR lens. To stop the gain from going too high and producing noise, you might be able to make a lens caps with faint light source, to stop the gain from being forced up while forcing the iris open.

You could then use the SLR lens zoom and focus controls.

Another idea, is it possible to store the open iris in shot transition between power ups.

Barry Green · June 30th, 2005, 11:42 AM

Using the iris on the SLR lens is a really bad idea -- the more it gets stopped down, the more visible grain shows up on the ground glass. Normally you keep the SLR lens wide open at all times and control exposure through the camera's iris. Relying on the SLR's iris for exposure will have a definite impact on the quality of the image (meaning, the more stopped-down you make it, the grittier and grainier your footage will become).

Maximo Salaberry · July 5th, 2005, 06:50 PM

Would a wide angle lens like the Kenko SGW05 work well witht he HC1? or would this camera require some specific wide angle lenses?

also, loading the tapes from below, would this make it a hassle to attach a beachtek adapter?

thank you

John Stanley · July 6th, 2005, 04:21 PM

Hi,
I have a Canon GL2 that I'm quite pleased with. However, I need to add a second good camera to build my business. I have been shooting weddings with the GL2 as my main camera and a Sony Digital 8 camera for the wide shots.
I was planning to get another GL2 until I started looking at the HC1 and FX1. I know the camera is just being released, but I would like some opinions on this: If I buy the Sony HC1 and begin filming weddings with it and a GL2, how well will the colors and footage (shot in SD or downgraded after the shoot) match?
I can color correct in Final Cut Pro, and getting the HC1 gets at least one foot in the door towards HD.
Apparently Canon isn't quite ready to release a product, so I have to do something. Also, is the HC1 up to snuff for wedding videography, or would you absolutely go for the FX1?, since it's 3 chip?
Thanks,
- John

Fredrik-Larsson · July 6th, 2005, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximo Salaberry

also, loading the tapes from below, would this make it a hassle to attach a beachtek adapter?

Check out http://hdvforever.com/hdv/hdrhc1/default.htm
To me it looks like it will be problem every time you change a tape. But I remember a friend having some kind of snap-on adapter to his camera so attaching that to the camera will make it easier to pick it on and off. Maybe something like that can be used?

Wayne Morellini · July 10th, 2005, 08:14 AM

That depends on the the sort of adaptor your using. Truly grain less adaptors (which some are trying with wax but are other possible ways) should get around that.

I have stumbled accross a description on how to control the exposure on another forum from a guy that has been doing lots of testing on the camera (many clips).

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/sho...4&postcount=49
http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthread.php?t=2365

Thanks

Wayne.

Lorin Thwaits · July 20th, 2005, 04:30 AM

In order to keep all the menus straight in my mind, I created a set of Javascript-enabled pages on my site with screen grabs from the LCD screen. It's all in Japanese, and then the English translation is either at the right or appears when hovering. Check it out:

http://hdvforever.com/hdv/hdrhc1/menus

Currently it has four views, starting with when you first turn on the camera, then clicking into rec review / end search, the three screens of personalized menus, and finally the five main menu "chunks". Soon I'll add in every menu option underneath all that so I can better memorize my Japanese-only camera.

(Menus will be captured specifically for HDV recording. I have no interest in stills or DV!)

-Lorin

Chris Hurd · July 21st, 2005, 12:02 AM

Great job! Thanks Lorin,

Chris Hink · August 8th, 2005, 06:22 PM

I picked up an HC1 the other day, have shot a variety of nature situations and have been editing it with FCP 5 and viewing on an Apple 23' HD cinema display. The image is great except when there's a pan the image really seems to strobe alot. Even relatively slow pans. I realize I'm looking at interlaced frames on a progressive screen but am I doing something wrong? It looks fine on a CRT monitor (smooth but videolike) but it drives me crazy watching on my flat panel. Is there any way to smooth this out? My shutter is set to 1/60.

I should also mention that I usually leave the camera's control's on AUTO.

Alexander Karol · August 9th, 2005, 12:49 AM

Well, it is kind of difficult to assess your inquiry because we would need a lot more. A sample of the clip would be idea. A lot of things could play into effect; like movement on the environment while panning, pan speed, etc. Usually, under a lot of movement (lots of pans), it is wise to increase the shutter speed to something around 1/2000th or so. Also, take into consideration that HDV is compressing its 3-4x DV resolution into the same 25mb. That means this higher compression will result in less image accuracy when panning. This is a disadvantage of HDV, but most people consider the quality tradeoff to be acceptable.

Jung Kyu · August 11th, 2005, 09:15 AM

i went to hc1 convention in seoul
for the demonstration they screened on digital projector barco about 400inch screen...it's really impressvie even in big screen it was very sharp..clear almost like 2k film.

http://arena.nikkeibp.co.jp/col/2005...ample_mpeg.zip

Chris Hurd · August 11th, 2005, 10:21 AM

Thanks for this report, Jung! Much appreciated,

John Yamamoto · August 13th, 2005, 03:45 AM

Dear Folks,

i guess u don;t need to read chinese just acroll down and u will see the 2 captured pix, of both Fx1 and Hc1. seems only at low light the HC1 is not as good as FX1.

i just got HC1 E , but yet to find out how is the cinema gamma, seems no way to make it work.

J.M.

Boyd Ostroff · August 13th, 2005, 06:15 AM

Perhaps it would help to post a link? :-)

Alex Thin · August 21st, 2005, 07:08 PM

Hi everyone, I am going to buy this camera (HC1) and my question is what PC I must have to capture hdv from HC1 DV tape. I think to use CapDVHS to capture the raw m2t file.

thanks.

June 30th, 2005, 10:59 AM	#1
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Various questions Sony HC1 Ways around aperture/gain/iris controls on HC1? I am a bit confused to the exact nature of exposure control behaviour, but I think there are some ways around the major drawbacks in the camcorders controls. Simple stuff most of us know: Zoom/Focus. In professional movie making they prefer to physically move the position of the camera back and forward and side to side. Learning to do this you only would have to use the zoom on occasion, leaving you free to ride the focus. Shutter control. In film they usually stick with one speed for a consistent look, pick the best speed for look and lock it till light is too low. This then leaves gain and aperture in full auto (the two that I don't want in full auto). A part solution. Aperture and gain control: Make a HD SLR lens adaptor (research is still on going in the alternative imaging forums and progress is coming along) and use it's iris. I assume you can lock the exposure to one position. So would turning the manual exposure control so that the iris opened up and locking it (with shutter locked) do the trick? Otherwise, you could cover the front of the lens with something black (say a lens cap) to force it to open and then lock. Now you can use the iris on the SLR lens. To stop the gain from going too high and producing noise, you might be able to make a lens caps with faint light source, to stop the gain from being forced up while forcing the iris open. You could then use the SLR lens zoom and focus controls. Another idea, is it possible to store the open iris in shot transition between power ups.

July 5th, 2005, 06:50 PM	#3
Maximo Salaberry Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 66	accessories for HC1? Would a wide angle lens like the Kenko SGW05 work well witht he HC1? or would this camera require some specific wide angle lenses? also, loading the tapes from below, would this make it a hassle to attach a beachtek adapter? thank you

July 6th, 2005, 04:21 PM	#4
John Stanley Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 54	Mixing footage from Sony HC1 and Canon GL2 Hi, I have a Canon GL2 that I'm quite pleased with. However, I need to add a second good camera to build my business. I have been shooting weddings with the GL2 as my main camera and a Sony Digital 8 camera for the wide shots. I was planning to get another GL2 until I started looking at the HC1 and FX1. I know the camera is just being released, but I would like some opinions on this: If I buy the Sony HC1 and begin filming weddings with it and a GL2, how well will the colors and footage (shot in SD or downgraded after the shoot) match? I can color correct in Final Cut Pro, and getting the HC1 gets at least one foot in the door towards HD. Apparently Canon isn't quite ready to release a product, so I have to do something. Also, is the HC1 up to snuff for wedding videography, or would you absolutely go for the FX1?, since it's 3 chip? Thanks, - John

July 20th, 2005, 04:30 AM	#7
Lorin Thwaits Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 40	Virtual Clickable HC1 In order to keep all the menus straight in my mind, I created a set of Javascript-enabled pages on my site with screen grabs from the LCD screen. It's all in Japanese, and then the English translation is either at the right or appears when hovering. Check it out: http://hdvforever.com/hdv/hdrhc1/menus Currently it has four views, starting with when you first turn on the camera, then clicking into rec review / end search, the three screens of personalized menus, and finally the five main menu "chunks". Soon I'll add in every menu option underneath all that so I can better memorize my Japanese-only camera. (Menus will be captured specifically for HDV recording. I have no interest in stills or DV!) -Lorin

July 21st, 2005, 12:02 AM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Great job! Thanks Lorin, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 30th, 2005, 11:42 AM	#2
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Using the iris on the SLR lens is a really bad idea -- the more it gets stopped down, the more visible grain shows up on the ground glass. Normally you keep the SLR lens wide open at all times and control exposure through the camera's iris. Relying on the SLR's iris for exposure will have a definite impact on the quality of the image (meaning, the more stopped-down you make it, the grittier and grainier your footage will become).

July 10th, 2005, 08:14 AM	#6
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	That depends on the the sort of adaptor your using. Truly grain less adaptors (which some are trying with wax but are other possible ways) should get around that. I have stumbled accross a description on how to control the exposure on another forum from a guy that has been doing lots of testing on the camera (many clips). http://www.camcorderinfo.com/bbs/sho...4&postcount=49 http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/showthread.php?t=2365 Thanks Wayne.

August 8th, 2005, 06:22 PM	#9
Chris Hink New Boot Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 24	strobing pans with HC1? I picked up an HC1 the other day, have shot a variety of nature situations and have been editing it with FCP 5 and viewing on an Apple 23' HD cinema display. The image is great except when there's a pan the image really seems to strobe alot. Even relatively slow pans. I realize I'm looking at interlaced frames on a progressive screen but am I doing something wrong? It looks fine on a CRT monitor (smooth but videolike) but it drives me crazy watching on my flat panel. Is there any way to smooth this out? My shutter is set to 1/60. I should also mention that I usually leave the camera's control's on AUTO.

August 9th, 2005, 12:49 AM	#10
Alexander Karol Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 198	Well, it is kind of difficult to assess your inquiry because we would need a lot more. A sample of the clip would be idea. A lot of things could play into effect; like movement on the environment while panning, pan speed, etc. Usually, under a lot of movement (lots of pans), it is wise to increase the shutter speed to something around 1/2000th or so. Also, take into consideration that HDV is compressing its 3-4x DV resolution into the same 25mb. That means this higher compression will result in less image accuracy when panning. This is a disadvantage of HDV, but most people consider the quality tradeoff to be acceptable.

August 11th, 2005, 09:15 AM	#11
Jung Kyu Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 143	HC1 on digital projector i went to hc1 convention in seoul for the demonstration they screened on digital projector barco about 400inch screen...it's really impressvie even in big screen it was very sharp..clear almost like 2k film. http://arena.nikkeibp.co.jp/col/2005...ample_mpeg.zip Last edited by Jung Kyu; August 11th, 2005 at 11:05 AM.

August 11th, 2005, 10:21 AM	#12
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Thanks for this report, Jung! Much appreciated, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 13th, 2005, 03:45 AM	#13
John Yamamoto Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 94	Taiwan has a site compare the FX1and HC1 pciture quailty Dear Folks, i guess u don;t need to read chinese just acroll down and u will see the 2 captured pix, of both Fx1 and Hc1. seems only at low light the HC1 is not as good as FX1. i just got HC1 E , but yet to find out how is the cinema gamma, seems no way to make it work. J.M.

August 13th, 2005, 06:15 AM	#14
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Perhaps it would help to post a link? :-)

August 21st, 2005, 07:08 PM	#15
Alex Thin Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 26	PC requerimets to capture from hc1? Hi everyone, I am going to buy this camera (HC1) and my question is what PC I must have to capture hdv from HC1 DV tape. I think to use CapDVHS to capture the raw m2t file. thanks.