Planning of doing side-by-side comparison on FX1 and HC1

Kaku Ito · July 6th, 2005, 08:13 PM

Mike,
Thank you for trying. It takes hours to transfer to dotMac acount and that goes same to you to download. I asked my company web administrator to setup download page in my site, so I can be more flexible in creating formats for Windows users.

For Windows users, should not download this file. I will capture the clip using LumiereHD (just like the first time) and post it as native m2t.

I wonder how mac users are doing.

Yiannis Kall · July 6th, 2005, 08:28 PM

i cant play it too

Magnus Andersen · July 6th, 2005, 10:29 PM

Hello all.

I can play the clip fine on Windows XP with Media Player Classic. I am using version 6.4.8.2 so that and newer should work.
It uses the built-in mpeg2 codec it seems.
Here is a link to it on Sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...ckage_id=84358

Best, Magnus.

Lorin Thwaits · July 6th, 2005, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

Here's the first clip for now.

This footage was shot with shutter speed "60", automatic f-stop and gain. It was shot early evening. Atuomatic white balance.

Just like some of the other guys, I get video but no audio. And very nice at that! The focus seeks a bit when it's zoomed up on the grounds. Amazing demo of the latitude, even with a fairly bright background and dim foreground the background doesn't get washed out. EIP works very well in that regard. 14 bits is enough to be impressive. Gets kinda grainy at +15db... But still usable. Definitely not a low-light cam.

I think the red truck that passes by may be a good enough subject to examine the rolling shutter artifact with. I'll start picking it apart frame by frame.

For those that can't view it yet, note that even though the file extension is M2T, the content is actually recompressed into a program stream at 26.3 Mbps. So not too much loss altogether. Still a standard 15GOP. I was able to play it back full speed on my laptop, which has a 2 GHz Pentium M.

Thanks very much for the clip! Time for me to put it under a magnifying glass.

-Lorin

Lorin Thwaits · July 6th, 2005, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorin Thwaits

...the content is actually recompressed into a program stream at 26.3 Mbps.

And also put into a QuickTime wrapper with strange indexing! No wonder some software didn't understand it that well the first time 'round.

-Lorin

Thomas Smet · July 6th, 2005, 11:35 PM

The video played fine on my XP with Real Media Player. This machine I use for the internet is only a Athlon XP 1800 and it played fine. It was a little jerky but it still played.

The video looks very nice so far. Not bad for a single chip camera. They sure have come a long way. I will be some image tests later tonight. Thank you for the video. You did a great thing for all of us.

Thomas Smet · July 6th, 2005, 11:37 PM

One thing I did do was change the file extension to ".mpg" I can now even use the file in After Effects.

Kaku Ito · July 6th, 2005, 11:51 PM

I think this is QuickTime 7 thing. But I knew you folk would figure out some other ways to playback.

I mastered this clip to tape and try to capture it with LumiereHD. Than will capture the footage as simple m2t, but can anybody figure out what is the best way to convert the edited clip from FCP5 to m2t that both mac and window users can playback? I'm busy shooting and editing so, if anyone can help, that would really save time and effort. While someone will be figuring that out, I would be editing more clips.

Also, we went out to shoot some cars going by on a street with both HC1 and FX1 at the same time with all of the shutter speed from 10,000 through 30. Lorin, which shutter speed footage would be needed to compare (I'm going to go ahead and do 10,000 and 60 for now which are probably mandatory anyway)?

AND, the focus is rather slow in dark places (with low contrast I guess). With its small LCD and the view finder, I was having harder time focusing manually comparing to FX1 for sure. The focus/zoom ring feels fine, not as good as AG-DVC30 felt, but better than NV-GS400 for sure. For how fucus/zoom ring works, AG-DVC30 still feels the best to me.

Yiannis Kall · July 7th, 2005, 12:23 AM

i change it to .mpg and played with windvd 7 and it worked but only video - no sound. With media player classic the opposite only sound - no video.

Please Kuku Ito
can you take video with hc-1 while walking? I always record like that with a small-cheap steadycam.
thank you very much

Yiannis
Greece

Kyle Edwards · July 7th, 2005, 12:39 AM

The footage looks real nice, but as suggested before, some raw M2T files would be nice to check out. Since the file you provided is edited and recompressed twice it is hard to judge the quality straight from the camera. From what I see, it looks pretty damn good.

Thank you for your effort.

Kaku Ito · July 7th, 2005, 01:28 AM

Kyle,
It is more trouble for me to boot up something other than Final Cut Pro 5 right now, but I will come back and provide the raw files later. Also, in the beginning I need to show credit for what I do and what people helped me for and raw files can't include these things.

Yiannis,
I actually noticed the stabilizer worked pretty good for that purpose. The one I shot last night is too dark, so I will do something else for you.

Lorin,
I posted the footage file with car passing by (only side way for now) which are shot with both FX1 and HC1. Can you look at that? It is only 20 sec. footage, so the file is smaller and please tell me what we can do further.

xtream.ne.jp download page link

Please register at my site and leave comment for me there, too. I look like an idot just talking to myself there. I really appreciated that Chris, Mark and few other people left messages at my blog when I provided the FX1 files last year. I'm hoping to do active discussion here and sort out my idea there at my site, so both my site and hdvinfo gain from it.

Kaku Ito · July 7th, 2005, 01:40 AM

The automatic adjustments seem to lead to little on the brighter side during the night shooting. I kept going to the brightness adjustment to lower the brightness to make it look close to what I see with my own eyes (hoping that the gain would go lower and gets less grainy).

Lorin Thwaits · July 7th, 2005, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

which shutter speed footage would be needed to compare (I'm going to go ahead and do 10,000 and 60 for now which are probably mandatory anyway)?

Those two speeds should work fine. For the cars going by test the camera should be used normally, so cars go by horizontally. Not with the camera tilted on its side.

The rolling shutter effect should also be visible when filming with some varying vertical motion, like what Yiannis had asked for, some hand-held walking shots. Just walking normally would be fine. And for a more extreme test, use a high shutter speed and move the camera with a short motion up and down more quickly on a detailed scene.

Thanks so much, Kaku!

-Lorin

Kaku Ito · July 7th, 2005, 04:20 AM

Lorin,

So the comparison file should be good for your testing. They were shot without the stabilizer, but that is not concern anymore on the vertical tilt, right?

It is already dark here in Japan, so I can't shoot good footage with vertical movement, but I will do that tomorrow.

Also, someone was asking for a human skin footage on another thread. I shot video of a little girl playing around today, so I will post it sometime tonight.

Lorin Thwaits · July 7th, 2005, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

They were shot without the stabilizer, but that is not concern anymore on the vertical tilt, right?

Super SteadyShot hasn't been ruled out as the main culprit, but after pondering on the effect some more it has taken a back seat. So what you've captured is definitely still a valid test.

Thank you again so much!

-Lorin

July 6th, 2005, 08:13 PM	#31
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Mike, Thank you for trying. It takes hours to transfer to dotMac acount and that goes same to you to download. I asked my company web administrator to setup download page in my site, so I can be more flexible in creating formats for Windows users. For Windows users, should not download this file. I will capture the clip using LumiereHD (just like the first time) and post it as native m2t. I wonder how mac users are doing. Last edited by Kaku Ito; July 6th, 2005 at 08:55 PM.

July 6th, 2005, 11:51 PM	#38
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	I think this is QuickTime 7 thing. But I knew you folk would figure out some other ways to playback. I mastered this clip to tape and try to capture it with LumiereHD. Than will capture the footage as simple m2t, but can anybody figure out what is the best way to convert the edited clip from FCP5 to m2t that both mac and window users can playback? I'm busy shooting and editing so, if anyone can help, that would really save time and effort. While someone will be figuring that out, I would be editing more clips. Also, we went out to shoot some cars going by on a street with both HC1 and FX1 at the same time with all of the shutter speed from 10,000 through 30. Lorin, which shutter speed footage would be needed to compare (I'm going to go ahead and do 10,000 and 60 for now which are probably mandatory anyway)? AND, the focus is rather slow in dark places (with low contrast I guess). With its small LCD and the view finder, I was having harder time focusing manually comparing to FX1 for sure. The focus/zoom ring feels fine, not as good as AG-DVC30 felt, but better than NV-GS400 for sure. For how fucus/zoom ring works, AG-DVC30 still feels the best to me. Last edited by Kaku Ito; July 7th, 2005 at 12:09 AM.

July 7th, 2005, 01:28 AM	#41
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Kyle, It is more trouble for me to boot up something other than Final Cut Pro 5 right now, but I will come back and provide the raw files later. Also, in the beginning I need to show credit for what I do and what people helped me for and raw files can't include these things. Yiannis, I actually noticed the stabilizer worked pretty good for that purpose. The one I shot last night is too dark, so I will do something else for you. Lorin, I posted the footage file with car passing by (only side way for now) which are shot with both FX1 and HC1. Can you look at that? It is only 20 sec. footage, so the file is smaller and please tell me what we can do further. xtream.ne.jp download page link Please register at my site and leave comment for me there, too. I look like an idot just talking to myself there. I really appreciated that Chris, Mark and few other people left messages at my blog when I provided the FX1 files last year. I'm hoping to do active discussion here and sort out my idea there at my site, so both my site and hdvinfo gain from it. Last edited by Kaku Ito; July 7th, 2005 at 02:29 AM.

July 7th, 2005, 01:40 AM	#42
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Another fact The automatic adjustments seem to lead to little on the brighter side during the night shooting. I kept going to the brightness adjustment to lower the brightness to make it look close to what I see with my own eyes (hoping that the gain would go lower and gets less grainy).

July 6th, 2005, 08:28 PM	#32
Yiannis Kall Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Greece-Athens Posts: 37	i cant play it too

July 6th, 2005, 10:29 PM	#33
Magnus Andersen New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Sweden Posts: 15	Hello all. I can play the clip fine on Windows XP with Media Player Classic. I am using version 6.4.8.2 so that and newer should work. It uses the built-in mpeg2 codec it seems. Here is a link to it on Sourceforge: http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...ckage_id=84358 Best, Magnus.

July 6th, 2005, 11:35 PM	#36
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	The video played fine on my XP with Real Media Player. This machine I use for the internet is only a Athlon XP 1800 and it played fine. It was a little jerky but it still played. The video looks very nice so far. Not bad for a single chip camera. They sure have come a long way. I will be some image tests later tonight. Thank you for the video. You did a great thing for all of us.

July 6th, 2005, 11:37 PM	#37
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	One thing I did do was change the file extension to ".mpg" I can now even use the file in After Effects.

July 7th, 2005, 12:23 AM	#39
Yiannis Kall Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Greece-Athens Posts: 37	i change it to .mpg and played with windvd 7 and it worked but only video - no sound. With media player classic the opposite only sound - no video. Please Kuku Ito can you take video with hc-1 while walking? I always record like that with a small-cheap steadycam. thank you very much Yiannis Greece

July 7th, 2005, 12:39 AM	#40
Kyle Edwards Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: LI, NY Posts: 274	The footage looks real nice, but as suggested before, some raw M2T files would be nice to check out. Since the file you provided is edited and recompressed twice it is hard to judge the quality straight from the camera. From what I see, it looks pretty damn good. Thank you for your effort.

July 7th, 2005, 04:20 AM	#44
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Lorin, So the comparison file should be good for your testing. They were shot without the stabilizer, but that is not concern anymore on the vertical tilt, right? It is already dark here in Japan, so I can't shoot good footage with vertical movement, but I will do that tomorrow. Also, someone was asking for a human skin footage on another thread. I shot video of a little girl playing around today, so I will post it sometime tonight.