Planning of doing side-by-side comparison on FX1 and HC1

Kaku Ito · July 5th, 2005, 08:01 AM

Joe, well, maybe it is right now, since yen is very weak at this time.
The dealer I deal with is selling XL2 (body only, without the lens) for 321,300 yen (only supply lasts). You probably find more information in the XL2 thread better than here.

Pro Video Station Shinjuku

Wayne Morellini · July 5th, 2005, 11:21 PM

Chris, OK, I thought that sounded a bit too good to be true :|( no blush cheek smiley available for some reason ;) . I checked over the web and found the same figure, and even f1.6:f11 in comparison for the FX1. So I thought maybe they were trying to strangely handicap the camera by removing larger DOF's. Silly me ;) Still, approx half a stop loss for telephoto is good.

Kaku Ito · July 6th, 2005, 02:20 AM

Okay, my staff emailed me (I was out to give lecture at a music college) and the cam is in.

Kaku Ito · July 6th, 2005, 06:01 AM

I will make few clips available on midnight.

Chris, you can copy the files to make them available at your ftp. I will close mine after you copy them.

Now, I'm off to the same Gap and the street to shoot the same angles and movement in Harajuku.

Chris Hurd · July 6th, 2005, 07:32 AM

Thanks Kaku -- I'll let you (and everybody else) know when we have them.

Kaku Ito · July 6th, 2005, 07:45 AM

Now I'm having the same problem that Frederic had, can't capture with FCP5 and 10.4.1. Do I have to reinstall the whole OS?
FCExpress is capturing okay, but it will be AIC that way.

Kaku Ito · July 6th, 2005, 08:10 AM

I guess I'm going to install 10.4 into my G-Tech G-RAID.

Because of this, it will take few more hours to start providing the files.

Lorin Thwaits · July 6th, 2005, 10:33 AM

After reviewing other M2Ts out on the 'net, some have a vertical stretching type artefact. I think this stems from the HC1's CMOS sensor having a rolling shutter. If so then it must be scanning the sensor pretty slowly! Now I'm curious to see footage that has some vertical motion, across different shutter speeds. I think we may have a significant rolling shutter issue on our hands here.

Technically the faster you can read a sensor with no shutter, the better it should be. But from what I'm seeing here it may only be scanning at the rate of the shutter speed.

In addition to vertical motion uncovering this issue, another way it would show up is when a flash goes off in a frame. Normally on film or a CCD system with a shutter, if you have a quick flash such as with flash photography, lightning, an explosion, or a strobe, then the whole field is affected simultaneously. Those that have done frame by frame editing of events are well aware of what it looks like. One frame is normal, the next is brighter from the flash, and then after that it's back to normal again. But with a rolling shutter it will be a horizontal band, and not always affect the entire field. It would at least occasionally (and perhaps frequently) only show up on a part of the total field! Perhaps just a few lines, perhaps a broad section. So most of the image would be normal, but a portion would have a brighter band in the middle.

Altogether this is probably a new beast we're dealing with here. Good deshaking algorithms could compensate for some of the motion effects. But subjects travelling horizontally, especially moving quickly, would be tough to correct for.

(Anyone else out there technically inclined and understand what in the world I'm talking about?)

-Lorin

Kaku Ito · July 6th, 2005, 11:42 AM

Lorin,

The footage I just edited, was shot with shutter speed at 60 and it include the video of water and coffee going down from espresso machine.

Now I'm waiting for chris to provide me the login procedure to upload the edited m2t file.

I will do more test tomorrow on something going up and down (maybe cars going by with camera set sideways) at different shutter speeds.

Kaku Ito · July 6th, 2005, 12:40 PM

Here's the first clip for now.

This footage was shot with shutter speed "60", automatic f-stop and gain. It was shot early evening. Atuomatic white balance.

Probably it takes awhile for file transfer to complete.

dotMac filesharing page.

P.S. I could not do the comparison today (I was alone shooting video), but I will ask my wife to help me tomorrow.

Michal Laskowski · July 6th, 2005, 02:35 PM

Thank you Kaku for the clip. <wow> It's almost 300 MB - the longest clip from HC1 available. Unfortunately I will have to wait till tomorrow to watch it - it's at night now and it downloads "only" at 20kB/s.

Thank you

Mike Farrington · July 6th, 2005, 03:22 PM

I've downloaded the clip, but i'm only getting the audio. I'm using both the VLC player and WM, neither work. I could view Kerr Cook's clips just fine, but not these.

Any suggestions?

Kuba Majewski · July 6th, 2005, 04:51 PM

I have the same problem

Kaku Ito · July 6th, 2005, 06:57 PM

I left it as QuickTime HDV format and maybe that is why. How about downloading QuickTime 7? Will that work?
Anyway, I'm converting the file to "HDV1060i format" in "Compressor 2", so that should be more native?

Mike Farrington · July 6th, 2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaku Ito

I left it as QuickTime HDV format and maybe that is why. How about downloading QuickTime 7?

Not for me. I've tried it on two different PC's with Quicktime 7.0 preview with no luck. I've been searching for codecs all night, but just cant seem to find one that works with this particular HDV file.

-Mike

July 6th, 2005, 07:32 AM	#20
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Thanks Kaku -- I'll let you (and everybody else) know when we have them. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 6th, 2005, 07:45 AM	#21
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Geez, Now I'm having the same problem that Frederic had, can't capture with FCP5 and 10.4.1. Do I have to reinstall the whole OS? FCExpress is capturing okay, but it will be AIC that way.

July 6th, 2005, 08:10 AM	#22
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	I guess I'm going to install 10.4 into my G-Tech G-RAID. Because of this, it will take few more hours to start providing the files. Last edited by Kaku Ito; July 6th, 2005 at 08:58 AM.

July 6th, 2005, 10:33 AM	#23
Lorin Thwaits Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 40	Potential rolling shutter issue on the HC1 After reviewing other M2Ts out on the 'net, some have a vertical stretching type artefact. I think this stems from the HC1's CMOS sensor having a rolling shutter. If so then it must be scanning the sensor pretty slowly! Now I'm curious to see footage that has some vertical motion, across different shutter speeds. I think we may have a significant rolling shutter issue on our hands here. Technically the faster you can read a sensor with no shutter, the better it should be. But from what I'm seeing here it may only be scanning at the rate of the shutter speed. In addition to vertical motion uncovering this issue, another way it would show up is when a flash goes off in a frame. Normally on film or a CCD system with a shutter, if you have a quick flash such as with flash photography, lightning, an explosion, or a strobe, then the whole field is affected simultaneously. Those that have done frame by frame editing of events are well aware of what it looks like. One frame is normal, the next is brighter from the flash, and then after that it's back to normal again. But with a rolling shutter it will be a horizontal band, and not always affect the entire field. It would at least occasionally (and perhaps frequently) only show up on a part of the total field! Perhaps just a few lines, perhaps a broad section. So most of the image would be normal, but a portion would have a brighter band in the middle. Altogether this is probably a new beast we're dealing with here. Good deshaking algorithms could compensate for some of the motion effects. But subjects travelling horizontally, especially moving quickly, would be tough to correct for. (Anyone else out there technically inclined and understand what in the world I'm talking about?) -Lorin

July 6th, 2005, 12:40 PM	#25
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Here's the file Here's the first clip for now. This footage was shot with shutter speed "60", automatic f-stop and gain. It was shot early evening. Atuomatic white balance. Probably it takes awhile for file transfer to complete. dotMac filesharing page. P.S. I could not do the comparison today (I was alone shooting video), but I will ask my wife to help me tomorrow. Last edited by Kaku Ito; July 6th, 2005 at 01:00 PM.

July 5th, 2005, 08:01 AM	#16
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Joe, well, maybe it is right now, since yen is very weak at this time. The dealer I deal with is selling XL2 (body only, without the lens) for 321,300 yen (only supply lasts). You probably find more information in the XL2 thread better than here. Pro Video Station Shinjuku

July 5th, 2005, 11:21 PM	#17
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Chris, OK, I thought that sounded a bit too good to be true :\|( no blush cheek smiley available for some reason ;) . I checked over the web and found the same figure, and even f1.6:f11 in comparison for the FX1. So I thought maybe they were trying to strangely handicap the camera by removing larger DOF's. Silly me ;) Still, approx half a stop loss for telephoto is good.

July 6th, 2005, 02:20 AM	#18
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Okay, my staff emailed me (I was out to give lecture at a music college) and the cam is in.

July 6th, 2005, 06:01 AM	#19
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	I will make few clips available on midnight. Chris, you can copy the files to make them available at your ftp. I will close mine after you copy them. Now, I'm off to the same Gap and the street to shoot the same angles and movement in Harajuku.

July 6th, 2005, 11:42 AM	#24
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Lorin, The footage I just edited, was shot with shutter speed at 60 and it include the video of water and coffee going down from espresso machine. Now I'm waiting for chris to provide me the login procedure to upload the edited m2t file. I will do more test tomorrow on something going up and down (maybe cars going by with camera set sideways) at different shutter speeds.

July 6th, 2005, 02:35 PM	#26
Michal Laskowski New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 23	Thank you Kaku for the clip. <wow> It's almost 300 MB - the longest clip from HC1 available. Unfortunately I will have to wait till tomorrow to watch it - it's at night now and it downloads "only" at 20kB/s. Thank you

July 6th, 2005, 03:22 PM	#27
Mike Farrington Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 45	I've downloaded the clip, but i'm only getting the audio. I'm using both the VLC player and WM, neither work. I could view Kerr Cook's clips just fine, but not these. Any suggestions?

July 6th, 2005, 04:51 PM	#28
Kuba Majewski New Boot Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 19	I have the same problem

July 6th, 2005, 06:57 PM	#29
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	I left it as QuickTime HDV format and maybe that is why. How about downloading QuickTime 7? Will that work? Anyway, I'm converting the file to "HDV1060i format" in "Compressor 2", so that should be more native?