Record one file on CF instead of many? at DVinfo.net

Bob Ridge · March 14th, 2008, 02:22 AM

I just got my Z7U from B&H and am excited to put it to use this weekend. My primary concern so far is the weight compared to the V1U, but we'll see how much my shoulder brace helps. My question is about my other concern...

As far as camcorders go, I'm new to the concept of recording to a drive instead of a tape. Already I can see that the CF recorder is going to create a new file every single time I hit the REC button. I'm used to having one nice big fat file to work with. Does anyone know of a way to make this record everything as one continuous file? I've RTFM'd and Googled myself to death, but no solutions.

From what I'm gathering, I'm going to have to render all the files together in my software (Sony Vegas) into a new file, which bugs me because now I have two steps instead of one, plus I'll need double the drive space. I thought recording to CF was supposed to make things easier...

Robert M Wright · March 14th, 2008, 02:34 AM

You could use a simple MPEG editor, like Womble, to put the files all together into one big file, without recompressing.

http://www.womble.com/products/mvw.html

Marshall Levy · March 14th, 2008, 08:00 AM

I started on hard drives about 2-1/2 years ago and really haven't used tape since then....it does take some time to get used to, in that instead of having a few hour-long clips, I'd have 500-600 small clips. It was quite overwhelming at first, but it's great in terms of file organization.

I generally create folders with certain files....for a wedding; pre-cer, ceremony, reception....same goes with other projects as well.

You can always render out a new clip, but for the time that takes, you may be better off just getting used to the new clip structure.

Tim Ducharme · March 14th, 2008, 08:51 AM

This is from the Sony Canada site
http://www.sony.ca/hdv/files/support...are/m2tcat.exe

Quote from Sony's website regarding this download:
"This software allows you to stitch together long recordings that exceed 4GB in file size so they can be handled as one by your NLE. Some products such as Vegas Ver.7.C + have this function embedded within the NLE software itself or within a 3rd party plug-in that can be used within the NLE. Please check with your NLE vendor if they provide native support."

I prefer to work with all of the individual small files.

Bruce Ostrout · March 14th, 2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Ridge

I thought recording to CF was supposed to make things easier...

Yeah that is what is going to suck about solid state. I found this out a while ago when I started working with the DR60.

Tons of small files vs a few large files sucks for two main reasons. one big file allows you to easily slip an edit to see alternate takes easily where now you have to go back and scrub the source clips. In Sony Vegas for a project with 6-8 hours of source footage it now will take 5-20 minutes just to open vs less than a minute when it is 6 source files vs 800.

David Heath · March 14th, 2008, 09:54 AM

My approach is to form a new sequence, select all the clips that may be convieniently grouped together, drag them to the timeline and then work off that sequence, deleting the source clips if necessary for clarity.

Extra work maybe, but still much quicker than capturing off tape, and easier to work with.

Bruce Ostrout · March 14th, 2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Heath

My approach is to form a new sequence, select all the clips that may be convieniently grouped together, drag them to the timeline and then work off that sequence, deleting the source clips if necessary for clarity.

Extra work maybe, but still much quicker than capturing off tape, and easier to work with.

Say your shooter shoots a series of Broll shots with different compositions and movements and then your rough cut editor makes his choice and when you get the project you want to look at some alternates. If the footage is connected you can just slip the clip and look at them. Now you have to dig through your sequences and be more organized than necessary.

David Heath · March 14th, 2008, 05:29 PM

Sorry Bruce, I don't understand - I thought you wanted a few large files instead of a few small ones? Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, but what I'm suggesting simulates that within the NLE, (though the source material is unaltered).

It just means you're working from intermediate sequences, rather than individual shot clips or long captures. Say the material for a shoot consists of three sets of GVs - "house", "garden" and "office", each 15 shots long, and two 10 minute interviews "a" and "b".

Imported straight, that would give you 47 individual clips to work off. My approach would condense it to 2 clips (the interviews) and 3 intermediate sequences, each consisting of all the material for that location. The point is that forming the intermediate sequences can be very quick, the trick being to do it early on - before you set any ins or outs in individual clips, otherwise that excludes some of the rushes from the sequence.

Matt Davis · March 15th, 2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Ostrout

Tons of small files vs a few large files sucks

Amen.

But this is not a problem with the devices 'per se', it is because the manufacturers play it safe by using a very very old disk structure like FAT32.

I'm sure their reasons are honorable, but it's so old fashioned. Mac users can access NTFS, and many ?nix solutions offer forward compatibility with virtually unlimited file sizes.

Please let's petition manufacturers to adopt 'grown up' file structures on their storage devices. And what of the EX-1 that splits shots between cards, so if the 2GB file started on Card A and finishes on Card B, but you're uploading and erasing card A whilst shooting on Card B, your shot is toast? NTFS or Sequoia or the rest can fix that. Lardy old Fat32 can/does cause problems and should be retired.

IMHO of course.

March 14th, 2008, 02:22 AM	#1
Bob Ridge Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Fishers, IN Posts: 26	Record one file on CF instead of many? I just got my Z7U from B&H and am excited to put it to use this weekend. My primary concern so far is the weight compared to the V1U, but we'll see how much my shoulder brace helps. My question is about my other concern... As far as camcorders go, I'm new to the concept of recording to a drive instead of a tape. Already I can see that the CF recorder is going to create a new file every single time I hit the REC button. I'm used to having one nice big fat file to work with. Does anyone know of a way to make this record everything as one continuous file? I've RTFM'd and Googled myself to death, but no solutions. From what I'm gathering, I'm going to have to render all the files together in my software (Sony Vegas) into a new file, which bugs me because now I have two steps instead of one, plus I'll need double the drive space. I thought recording to CF was supposed to make things easier...

March 14th, 2008, 02:34 AM	#2
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	You could use a simple MPEG editor, like Womble, to put the files all together into one big file, without recompressing. http://www.womble.com/products/mvw.html

March 14th, 2008, 08:00 AM	#3
Marshall Levy Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 304	I started on hard drives about 2-1/2 years ago and really haven't used tape since then....it does take some time to get used to, in that instead of having a few hour-long clips, I'd have 500-600 small clips. It was quite overwhelming at first, but it's great in terms of file organization. I generally create folders with certain files....for a wedding; pre-cer, ceremony, reception....same goes with other projects as well. You can always render out a new clip, but for the time that takes, you may be better off just getting used to the new clip structure.

March 14th, 2008, 08:51 AM	#4
Tim Ducharme Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 25	This is from the Sony Canada site http://www.sony.ca/hdv/files/support...are/m2tcat.exe Quote from Sony's website regarding this download: "This software allows you to stitch together long recordings that exceed 4GB in file size so they can be handled as one by your NLE. Some products such as Vegas Ver.7.C + have this function embedded within the NLE software itself or within a 3rd party plug-in that can be used within the NLE. Please check with your NLE vendor if they provide native support." I prefer to work with all of the individual small files.

March 14th, 2008, 09:54 AM	#6
David Heath Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,699	My approach is to form a new sequence, select all the clips that may be convieniently grouped together, drag them to the timeline and then work off that sequence, deleting the source clips if necessary for clarity. Extra work maybe, but still much quicker than capturing off tape, and easier to work with.

March 14th, 2008, 05:29 PM	#8
David Heath Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,699	Sorry Bruce, I don't understand - I thought you wanted a few large files instead of a few small ones? Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, but what I'm suggesting simulates that within the NLE, (though the source material is unaltered). It just means you're working from intermediate sequences, rather than individual shot clips or long captures. Say the material for a shoot consists of three sets of GVs - "house", "garden" and "office", each 15 shots long, and two 10 minute interviews "a" and "b". Imported straight, that would give you 47 individual clips to work off. My approach would condense it to 2 clips (the interviews) and 3 intermediate sequences, each consisting of all the material for that location. The point is that forming the intermediate sequences can be very quick, the trick being to do it early on - before you set any ins or outs in individual clips, otherwise that excludes some of the rushes from the sequence.