HDV to XDHD at DVinfo.net

John M. McCloskey · May 11th, 2007, 12:47 PM

Doing my best to make a check list to be able to show what I would be gaining from switching from HDV to XDHD. These are some issues I would like to make sure I am correct on
1) XDHD faster digitizing
2) XDHD better audio capabilities
3) XDHD better zoom, lens capabilities
4) Non Linear aquisition
5) XDHD higher resolution
6) XDHD footage from pre through post internet ready quicker
7) XDHD disk shelf life much longer
8) Shoulder mount camera
9) XDHD better in extreme conditions
10) ENG lens
11) XDHD better in low light
12) XDHD Proxies

Please if you could add to this list from Pre-Post I would very much appreciate it.

Nate Weaver · May 11th, 2007, 01:28 PM

What, the list isn't already long enough?

Add any more bullet points and your boss will fall asleep reading it.

John M. McCloskey · May 11th, 2007, 01:38 PM

I agree, I need all the ammo I can get especially the time we would save in the editing process. I want the list as long as i can get it. Any help much appreciated. THX

Andy Mees · May 12th, 2007, 07:56 AM

35 Mbps VBR codec means far superior picture quality with little or none of the fast movement issues associated with the HDV format

Guy Barwood · May 12th, 2007, 03:58 PM

The list is only accurate under specific circumstances. It depends on which cameras and capture format you are comparing.

Compare for example the JVC HD-200. It is sholder mount and has detachable ENG lens so XDHD has no advantage there, they are equal. Compare it the the new XDCAM EX camera and these advantages actually reverse and become advantages of HDV (3,8,10).

Capture HDV to one of the many HDD solutions and it eliminates 1,4,6.

Sony's new DSR-250 replacement will eliminate 3,from your list and add longer recording times as an advantage to HDV.

As for 5, both HDV and XDCAM HD (and XDCAM EX) in 1080i are 1440x1080 so technically the resolution is the same.

These are the only ones that I see to stand up to all current options:

2) XDHD better audio capabilities
7) XDHD disk shelf life much longer [although this is very debatable]
11) XDHD better in low light
12) XDHD Proxies

Colin Pearce · May 12th, 2007, 10:14 PM

I see the most important advantage of XDCAM is shallower depth of field than HDV (as they use 1/2 inch or 2/3 inch sensors, instead of HDV's 1/3 inch sensors, at best). Hence more professional appearance of the footage.

Guy Barwood · May 12th, 2007, 10:48 PM

Who knows, with the new XDCAM EX comming out we could see a move to 1/2" HDV by Canon, JVC and Panasonic (well 1/2" DVCPRO HD) over the next 24months to try to compete.

One can only hope...

John M. McCloskey · May 15th, 2007, 10:14 AM

Nothing against the new Sony EX camera or the P2 cameras, but the ability to archive footage in a library is a huge issue for some people including myself. how in the world are people going to archive/ build a library of all footage shot with these small card based cameras. Lets say they have 10 people on the road shooting average of 10,000 hours a year. And they want to archive every second of the footage. Seems to me XDHDcam would be the only logical way to go concerning aquiring HD.

Andy Mees · May 15th, 2007, 10:29 AM

John, forgive me if i'm misunderstanding, but its fairly obvious that one is not intended to archive using the aquisition media itself. One can archive the data to any number of alternative medium, including xdcam discs.
Andy

John M. McCloskey · May 15th, 2007, 10:39 AM

Thanks Andy, with time being a huge concern with many also, why I like XDHDcam is that once Ive shot it I can put the disk on the shelf and thats my archived footage. Digitize it into ISIS and thats my editing media with the disk on the shelf. With the card based cameras, once you shoot then you must worry about archiving it(extra step which takes time) copaired to the XDHDcam. All im saying is that extra step with card based aquisition is a time killer.

Andy Mees · May 15th, 2007, 11:02 AM

true enough John, point taken.
for many tho, its still a necessary step (not all of us can afford to indefinately store the original discs!)
for us its a shoot, edit, consolidate footage for archive and then reuse scenario, so the archive process lives to fight another day!

Guy Barwood · May 15th, 2007, 03:54 PM

It won't be long before BluRay media are only a few $ each. There is also the HDD option, as capacities are still increasing quickly and prices dropping. When you compare the cost of high end tape and XDCAM media these options arn't too bad at all. Compare the cost of 13 XDCAM disks to one 320GB HDD in an external chassis, then compare the space consumed by one of these drives and 13 XDCAM disks in their caddies (different shape but quite similar).

Greg Boston · May 15th, 2007, 04:03 PM

The new XDCAM EX camera is intended to acquire on flash media, then have it archived to a more permanent optical media like XDCAM HD. Archiving to HDD is also an option, but some folks don't feel comfortable yet with the longevity of hard drives. Newer technologies are always on the horizon though, so there's no telling what we'll have available for archival in the not too distant future.

-gb-

Guy Barwood · May 15th, 2007, 05:16 PM

I am not sure where this issue longevity of HDDs come from. HDDs don't fail just by sitting on the shelf, they fail with long periods of use. The longevity of XDCAM/HD itself certainly hasn't been prooven by anyone.

In 10 years you will be able to take a mass of your archived footage and copy it to a single new generation media. How many CDs can be archived on a BlueRay disk?

Kyle Self · May 15th, 2007, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

I am not sure where this issue longevity of HDDs come from. HDDs don't fail just by sitting on the shelf, they fail with long periods of use.
?

Sorry but tell that to the "working" hard drive I put on the shelf 6 months ago which now won't spin up.

K

May 11th, 2007, 12:47 PM	#1
John M. McCloskey Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Point, MS Posts: 313	HDV to XDHD Doing my best to make a check list to be able to show what I would be gaining from switching from HDV to XDHD. These are some issues I would like to make sure I am correct on 1) XDHD faster digitizing 2) XDHD better audio capabilities 3) XDHD better zoom, lens capabilities 4) Non Linear aquisition 5) XDHD higher resolution 6) XDHD footage from pre through post internet ready quicker 7) XDHD disk shelf life much longer 8) Shoulder mount camera 9) XDHD better in extreme conditions 10) ENG lens 11) XDHD better in low light 12) XDHD Proxies Please if you could add to this list from Pre-Post I would very much appreciate it.

May 11th, 2007, 01:28 PM	#2
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	What, the list isn't already long enough? Add any more bullet points and your boss will fall asleep reading it. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

May 11th, 2007, 01:38 PM	#3
John M. McCloskey Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Point, MS Posts: 313	I agree, I need all the ammo I can get especially the time we would save in the editing process. I want the list as long as i can get it. Any help much appreciated. THX

May 12th, 2007, 07:56 AM	#4
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	35 Mbps VBR codec means far superior picture quality with little or none of the fast movement issues associated with the HDV format

May 12th, 2007, 03:58 PM	#5
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	The list is only accurate under specific circumstances. It depends on which cameras and capture format you are comparing. Compare for example the JVC HD-200. It is sholder mount and has detachable ENG lens so XDHD has no advantage there, they are equal. Compare it the the new XDCAM EX camera and these advantages actually reverse and become advantages of HDV (3,8,10). Capture HDV to one of the many HDD solutions and it eliminates 1,4,6. Sony's new DSR-250 replacement will eliminate 3,from your list and add longer recording times as an advantage to HDV. As for 5, both HDV and XDCAM HD (and XDCAM EX) in 1080i are 1440x1080 so technically the resolution is the same. These are the only ones that I see to stand up to all current options: 2) XDHD better audio capabilities 7) XDHD disk shelf life much longer [although this is very debatable] 11) XDHD better in low light 12) XDHD Proxies

May 12th, 2007, 10:14 PM	#6
Colin Pearce Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 99	I see the most important advantage of XDCAM is shallower depth of field than HDV (as they use 1/2 inch or 2/3 inch sensors, instead of HDV's 1/3 inch sensors, at best). Hence more professional appearance of the footage.

May 12th, 2007, 10:48 PM	#7
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	Who knows, with the new XDCAM EX comming out we could see a move to 1/2" HDV by Canon, JVC and Panasonic (well 1/2" DVCPRO HD) over the next 24months to try to compete. One can only hope...

May 15th, 2007, 10:14 AM	#8
John M. McCloskey Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Point, MS Posts: 313	Nothing against the new Sony EX camera or the P2 cameras, but the ability to archive footage in a library is a huge issue for some people including myself. how in the world are people going to archive/ build a library of all footage shot with these small card based cameras. Lets say they have 10 people on the road shooting average of 10,000 hours a year. And they want to archive every second of the footage. Seems to me XDHDcam would be the only logical way to go concerning aquiring HD.

May 15th, 2007, 10:29 AM	#9
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	John, forgive me if i'm misunderstanding, but its fairly obvious that one is not intended to archive using the aquisition media itself. One can archive the data to any number of alternative medium, including xdcam discs. Andy

May 15th, 2007, 10:39 AM	#10
John M. McCloskey Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: West Point, MS Posts: 313	Thanks Andy, with time being a huge concern with many also, why I like XDHDcam is that once Ive shot it I can put the disk on the shelf and thats my archived footage. Digitize it into ISIS and thats my editing media with the disk on the shelf. With the card based cameras, once you shoot then you must worry about archiving it(extra step which takes time) copaired to the XDHDcam. All im saying is that extra step with card based aquisition is a time killer.

May 15th, 2007, 11:02 AM	#11
Andy Mees Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Posts: 645	true enough John, point taken. for many tho, its still a necessary step (not all of us can afford to indefinately store the original discs!) for us its a shoot, edit, consolidate footage for archive and then reuse scenario, so the archive process lives to fight another day!

May 15th, 2007, 03:54 PM	#12
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	It won't be long before BluRay media are only a few $ each. There is also the HDD option, as capacities are still increasing quickly and prices dropping. When you compare the cost of high end tape and XDCAM media these options arn't too bad at all. Compare the cost of 13 XDCAM disks to one 320GB HDD in an external chassis, then compare the space consumed by one of these drives and 13 XDCAM disks in their caddies (different shape but quite similar).

May 15th, 2007, 04:03 PM	#13
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	The new XDCAM EX camera is intended to acquire on flash media, then have it archived to a more permanent optical media like XDCAM HD. Archiving to HDD is also an option, but some folks don't feel comfortable yet with the longevity of hard drives. Newer technologies are always on the horizon though, so there's no telling what we'll have available for archival in the not too distant future. -gb-

May 15th, 2007, 05:16 PM	#14
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	I am not sure where this issue longevity of HDDs come from. HDDs don't fail just by sitting on the shelf, they fail with long periods of use. The longevity of XDCAM/HD itself certainly hasn't been prooven by anyone. In 10 years you will be able to take a mass of your archived footage and copy it to a single new generation media. How many CDs can be archived on a BlueRay disk?