Lenses + XDCAM HD + Independent Feature Film at DVinfo.net

Jeremiah McLamb · March 30th, 2007, 08:49 AM

In two months we will begin shooting on a low budget feature film. I've decided to go with the XDCAM HD as it fits our budget and post workflow. I'm am so impressed with the images this camera produces, yet I am wondering what kind of DOF this camera can produce. I'm looking for a shallow (although not insanely shallow) DOF to more closely mimic film. I know the tricks of opening the iris..zooming in...and some of it depends on which lens I use. I know a lot of people use the 35mm adaptors..and I don't know if there even is one made for the XDCAM HD...but I've heard that the image takes a bad quality hit with one of those things on..and I do not want that.

What are your suggestions? What lens do you recommend for this kind of production? Was looking at this one KH10ex3.6-IRSE HDgc 10x but it would be a bit nicer to get down to the $15k range if possible...but can spend a bit more if necessary...

Thanks
Jeremiah

Emanuel Altenburger · March 30th, 2007, 09:12 AM

I´ve recently used a Pro35mm adapter from P+S TECHNIK on a HDW 900. I then had several Zeiss Digi Primes on this pro35 and the image quality was absolutely stunning. The look of the images created was really close to the 35mm look one would want to achieve.
I know that there ARE adapters for 1/3" cameras like Canon XLH1 which are called mini35. But not for 1/2" XDCAM HD ....
The only possibility would be using the adapter/converter which you use to get your 2/3" lenses on the XDCAM HD, then use the pro35 system. As said, the quality of these images is absolutely amazing. This is much more than a normal HD lens could offer (surely. the ones I was using were primes). When doing 35mm or 16mm I loved using primes and so did I when using the pro35 system. I´m sure that the result will be absolutely brilliant. Nevertheless I have no experience with using these pro35 adapters on my XDCAM HD. So I can´t really promise anything. But normally it should work just as it worked with the Sony 900.

I know that the rental price for this adapter is not really cheap but it does its job really well.

If you want check out the website @ http://www.pstechnik.de/en/digitalfi...-converter.php. They also provide a rental list.
Here you get a good review: http://www.theasc.com/magazine/oct05...ker/index.html

Greg Penetrante · March 30th, 2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremiah McLamb

In two months we will begin shooting on a low budget feature film. I've decided to go with the XDCAM HD as it fits our budget and post workflow. I'm am so impressed with the images this camera produces, yet I am wondering what kind of DOF this camera can produce. I'm looking for a shallow (although not insanely shallow) DOF to more closely mimic film. I know the tricks of opening the iris..zooming in...and some of it depends on which lens I use. I know a lot of people use the 35mm adaptors..and I don't know if there even is one made for the XDCAM HD...but I've heard that the image takes a bad quality hit with one of those things on..and I do not want that.
...

Jeremiah,

DOF is also determined by the imager size. 1/2" chips will not produce the same DOF effects as the 35mm sensor. Expensive lenses won't decrease the DOF. Your idea of implementing a 35mm adaptor is a good one; I am not sure if P+S makes a 1/2" adaptor as of yet. The 1/2" HD camera market is small compred to 1/3" and 2/3"... good luck!

Jeremiah McLamb · March 30th, 2007, 01:39 PM

has anybody had experience with using the Pro35 and the 2/3 to 1/2 converter? Also, if i do go this route..i won't be able to use nice prime lenses but will have to use still photography lenses...most likely nikons. How will all of that effect the quality of my image? Will it degrade the HD quality? Will it still hold up to a 35mm film transfer?

Emanuel Altenburger · March 30th, 2007, 02:39 PM

Hello,

as I said I´ve done some stuff with the pro35 and the 900 hdcam. With the 900 HDCAM I didn´t need any 2/3" to 1/2" converter surely, but with XDCAM HD you would need one. I wonder whether you can use the one they offer for use with 2/3" ENG lenses: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...list&sku=49493
It should work, or am I wrong?

Anyway, I personally wouldn´t recommend using lenses from still cameras, as the focus pull situation is not the best. But it will almost certainly do the job. But for example you can´t "install" a follow focus system on most still lenses properly. Nice primes will cost you about 200$ a day. I know that this is a lot. I paid a lot less recently - strange. Just looked up the average rental prices on the internet.

HD lenses are made for HD cameras but very, very good primes like the Zeiss ones are made for big screens, so anything like that will make your film look really really cool, I think. Personally I love the Zeiss primes but tastes are surely different. Some people don´t like German lenses in general:-)
GOOD STILL lenses will do the job good. SUPERB still lenses will do the job better than just good. And Zeiss primes will do a perfect job as you have the convenience of installing a proper follow focus system.
The thing with primes though is, that you can´t zoom of course:-) Keep that in mind as it sometimes can make life in the field a bit hard. Especially when you don´t have a nice set of primes which are available to you.

In theory XDCAM HD @ 24p, pro35 (in combination with this thing http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...list&sku=49493) and Zeiss primes should be an absolutely perfect situation in my opinion.

Peter Arnold · March 31st, 2007, 07:24 AM

Hi

The 330 we are using is right now at P+S Technik in Munich to test a new adapter for use with XDCAM HD Cameras.

So good things come to those who wait.

I expect the camera to be back after the Easter Holiday and I'll keep you informed on this topic.

How about that?

Peter

Jeremiah McLamb · March 31st, 2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Arnold

How about that?

hahaha...that's awesome! Thanks for the good news! Any idea of what price range may be? Between the pro35 and mini35 i'm assuming.

Peter Arnold · March 31st, 2007, 01:52 PM

Right now? I have exactly no idea!
You'll hear from me soon. Promised.

Peter

Peter Arnold · April 11th, 2007, 04:00 AM

Hello Jeremiah

Our Camera is back from Munich. The guys there said that it will take some time to tweak it and produce it. They were talking about a 6 month timeframe :-(

Maybe at IBC in september.

I didn't know that it will take that long. So I guess you have to come up with another solution. Maybe the XDCAM HD 2/3 inch adapter and the Pro35 from P+S Technik?

Sorry I don't have better news for you

Peter

Jeremiah McLamb · April 11th, 2007, 08:16 AM

dang! too bad! Thanks for keeping me updated! I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

Peter Arnold · April 13th, 2007, 01:53 AM

Hi Jeremiah

Me again.

I received a newsletter from P+S Technik. Maybe your interested:
Here's the link. It may answer a few question.

http://www.pstechnik.de/en/newsletter_0704.php

Have a nice day.

Peter

Greg Penetrante · April 13th, 2007, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Arnold

Hi Jeremiah

Me again.

I received a newsletter from P+S Technik. Maybe your interested:
Here's the link. It may answer a few question.

http://www.pstechnik.de/en/newsletter_0704.php

Have a nice day.

Peter

Oooooh, this looks soooo goood ;-) Exciting times!

Thanks Peter for the info!

March 30th, 2007, 08:49 AM	#1
Jeremiah McLamb Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 174	Lenses + XDCAM HD + Independent Feature Film In two months we will begin shooting on a low budget feature film. I've decided to go with the XDCAM HD as it fits our budget and post workflow. I'm am so impressed with the images this camera produces, yet I am wondering what kind of DOF this camera can produce. I'm looking for a shallow (although not insanely shallow) DOF to more closely mimic film. I know the tricks of opening the iris..zooming in...and some of it depends on which lens I use. I know a lot of people use the 35mm adaptors..and I don't know if there even is one made for the XDCAM HD...but I've heard that the image takes a bad quality hit with one of those things on..and I do not want that. What are your suggestions? What lens do you recommend for this kind of production? Was looking at this one KH10ex3.6-IRSE HDgc 10x but it would be a bit nicer to get down to the $15k range if possible...but can spend a bit more if necessary... Thanks Jeremiah

March 30th, 2007, 09:12 AM	#2
Emanuel Altenburger Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Innsbruck, Austria Posts: 134	Pro35 Adapter I´ve recently used a Pro35mm adapter from P+S TECHNIK on a HDW 900. I then had several Zeiss Digi Primes on this pro35 and the image quality was absolutely stunning. The look of the images created was really close to the 35mm look one would want to achieve. I know that there ARE adapters for 1/3" cameras like Canon XLH1 which are called mini35. But not for 1/2" XDCAM HD .... The only possibility would be using the adapter/converter which you use to get your 2/3" lenses on the XDCAM HD, then use the pro35 system. As said, the quality of these images is absolutely amazing. This is much more than a normal HD lens could offer (surely. the ones I was using were primes). When doing 35mm or 16mm I loved using primes and so did I when using the pro35 system. I´m sure that the result will be absolutely brilliant. Nevertheless I have no experience with using these pro35 adapters on my XDCAM HD. So I can´t really promise anything. But normally it should work just as it worked with the Sony 900. I know that the rental price for this adapter is not really cheap but it does its job really well. If you want check out the website @ http://www.pstechnik.de/en/digitalfi...-converter.php. They also provide a rental list. Here you get a good review: http://www.theasc.com/magazine/oct05...ker/index.html

March 30th, 2007, 01:39 PM	#4
Jeremiah McLamb Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 174	has anybody had experience with using the Pro35 and the 2/3 to 1/2 converter? Also, if i do go this route..i won't be able to use nice prime lenses but will have to use still photography lenses...most likely nikons. How will all of that effect the quality of my image? Will it degrade the HD quality? Will it still hold up to a 35mm film transfer?

March 30th, 2007, 02:39 PM	#5
Emanuel Altenburger Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Innsbruck, Austria Posts: 134	Hello, as I said I´ve done some stuff with the pro35 and the 900 hdcam. With the 900 HDCAM I didn´t need any 2/3" to 1/2" converter surely, but with XDCAM HD you would need one. I wonder whether you can use the one they offer for use with 2/3" ENG lenses: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...list&sku=49493 It should work, or am I wrong? Anyway, I personally wouldn´t recommend using lenses from still cameras, as the focus pull situation is not the best. But it will almost certainly do the job. But for example you can´t "install" a follow focus system on most still lenses properly. Nice primes will cost you about 200$ a day. I know that this is a lot. I paid a lot less recently - strange. Just looked up the average rental prices on the internet. HD lenses are made for HD cameras but very, very good primes like the Zeiss ones are made for big screens, so anything like that will make your film look really really cool, I think. Personally I love the Zeiss primes but tastes are surely different. Some people don´t like German lenses in general:-) GOOD STILL lenses will do the job good. SUPERB still lenses will do the job better than just good. And Zeiss primes will do a perfect job as you have the convenience of installing a proper follow focus system. The thing with primes though is, that you can´t zoom of course:-) Keep that in mind as it sometimes can make life in the field a bit hard. Especially when you don´t have a nice set of primes which are available to you. In theory XDCAM HD @ 24p, pro35 (in combination with this thing http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...list&sku=49493) and Zeiss primes should be an absolutely perfect situation in my opinion.

March 31st, 2007, 07:24 AM	#6
Peter Arnold Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: cham, switzerland Posts: 36	Hi The 330 we are using is right now at P+S Technik in Munich to test a new adapter for use with XDCAM HD Cameras. So good things come to those who wait. I expect the camera to be back after the Easter Holiday and I'll keep you informed on this topic. How about that? Peter

March 31st, 2007, 01:52 PM	#8
Peter Arnold Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: cham, switzerland Posts: 36	Right now? I have exactly no idea! You'll hear from me soon. Promised. Peter

April 11th, 2007, 04:00 AM	#9
Peter Arnold Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: cham, switzerland Posts: 36	Hello Jeremiah Our Camera is back from Munich. The guys there said that it will take some time to tweak it and produce it. They were talking about a 6 month timeframe :-( Maybe at IBC in september. I didn't know that it will take that long. So I guess you have to come up with another solution. Maybe the XDCAM HD 2/3 inch adapter and the Pro35 from P+S Technik? Sorry I don't have better news for you Peter

April 11th, 2007, 08:16 AM	#10
Jeremiah McLamb Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fayetteville, NC Posts: 174	dang! too bad! Thanks for keeping me updated! I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

April 13th, 2007, 01:53 AM	#11
Peter Arnold Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: cham, switzerland Posts: 36	Hi Jeremiah Me again. I received a newsletter from P+S Technik. Maybe your interested: Here's the link. It may answer a few question. http://www.pstechnik.de/en/newsletter_0704.php Have a nice day. Peter