State of the PDZ Union

[Harley Flanagan]

So, who here uses the PDZ Browsing software?

We've stopped holding our breath for a Mac version of this and have been strictly using the PDZ Viewer software.

Maybe I've posted this before, but essentially all of our producers are using 80gb Firelite drives to log footage. We shoot on XDCAM, mount the disc on our Macs, and then drag and drop the "Sub" folder to the corresponding producer's Firelite drives. They can keep literally several shows worth of proxies on a drive they can store in their pocket.

After that, it's still a very down and dirty process. The PDZ Viewer just takes the place of the archaic VHS dub with a TC burn-in style of logging. We are getting to the point where our producers are very spoiled with the on-demand quality and portability of proxy files, but on the FCP end, the PDZ Viewer is pretty limited as it does not offer any means of manipulating labels or metadata. Our FCP guys just get alot of numbered clips. We really want to start taking advantage of what XDCAM can do, but we can't think of a feasible way to integrate the PDZ Browser into our workflow.

Here are my questions for ANYONE:

1.)Does Sony plan on releasing ANYTHING comparable to the PDZ Browser for the Mac?

2.)We have 10+ producers in the studio and in the field at anytime. When using the PDZ Browser, the idea is to be able to write BACK to the disc all the metadata changes you might have made. Obviously, all of them having access to an XDCAM or XD Deck at their desk is not feasible, so is there anyway the producers could say, send a completed file to someone else (me for example..with an XD Deck on my desk) who could then write back their updates to the XDCam disk from a centralized location?

Any help is appreciated!

Harley

[Andy Mees]

hi Harley

the current version of XDCAM Transfer is still only 1.1, so I'd expect to see significant improvements still to come. You're feedback directly to Sony is important, especially if you want to see specific features.

one thing I have asked for is for beefed-up logging capabilites with the ability to import and export the logging files so they may be transfered mac to mac.

regarding the Windows PDZ Browser software, do you have a network enabled deck? I would assume that that would solve the problem of writing back changes from locations remote from the deck.

cheers
Andy

[Harley Flanagan]

Originally Posted by Andy Mees

hi Harley

the current version of XDCAM Transfer is still only 1.1, so I'd expect to see significant improvements still to come. You're feedback directly to Sony is important, especially if you want to see specific features.

one thing I have asked for is for beefed-up logging capabilites with the ability to import and export the logging files so they may be transfered mac to mac.

regarding the Windows PDZ Browser software, do you have a network enabled deck? I would assume that that would solve the problem of writing back changes from locations remote from the deck.

cheers
Andy

Thanks Andy..

I've posted this on other boards and not gotten any responses. Is anyone here using XDCAM as part of a post production facility or are most of you guys cameramen?

[Andy Mees]

not surprisingly most are camera people, although I'm not one of them.
we loked at using XDCAM SD (IMX) in a networked environment at my last job, but, as in any large facility, inertia ruled the day and people tended toward their old practices.

where i am now we use XDCAM HD as our primary acquisition format

[Steve Cahill]

I agree. would love to see a logging feature that generates a XML file then use that to ingest the files right into FCP's bin from the disc via FAM. Or to take it another step further, a timeline with the clips already organized from the software, be it all the MAC or PC.

See what these folks are doing with XML and FCP

http://www.xmedit.com/case-studies/c...es-online.html

[Harley Flanagan]

[QUOTE=Steve Cahill]I agree. would love to see a logging feature that generates a XML file then use that to ingest the files right into FCP's bin from the disc via FAM. Or to take it another step further, a timeline with the clips already organized from the software, be it all the MAC or PC.
QUOTE]

Yeah man..I guess in theory, PDZ Browser is supposed to help with that, but it's such an unpleasant and unintuitive UI....one that we can't really get to make sense with our workflow without giving ecery producer an XDCAM deck.

[Andy Mees]

those workflows are honestly pretty damn easy to implement ... xml is far from rocket science :) the main problem we face is that Sony is not letting us in ... all they need to provide really is any kind of formatted export and import. then we can get in and make it do what we want ;)

[Steve Cahill]

Imagine products makes a P2 logger pro, which I got for P2 it does export the .mxf files out of the HVX200 as a XML to Final Cut, Hopefully they would be interested developing it into a XDCAM app.

http://www.imagineproducts.com/P2log.htm

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by Harley Flanagan

Yeah man..I guess in theory, PDZ Browser is supposed to help with that, but it's such an unpleasant and unintuitive UI....one that we can't really get to make sense with our workflow without giving ecery producer an XDCAM deck.

XDCAM Transfer will log your clips and then ingest straight into the FCP bin. Go through the clips, marking in/out and hitting the '+' button to be added to the list. You can take multiple shots from one clip or just use the whole clip. After you have all of the clips that you want, do a Sort->By subclip. This will put all clips with in/out marks at the top. Rubber band select those clips and hit import. They will be automatically added to the bin in FCP if you launch the application from within FCP using File ->Import ->XDCAM. If you launch the application stand-alone, it will import the files to the directory specified in XDCAM Transfer preferences, but won't add them to the FCP bin.

[Andy Mees]

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

....After you have all of the clips that you want, do a Sort->By subclip. This will put all clips with in/out marks at the top. Rubber band select those clips and hit import. ....

Hey Greg

Mate, you're missing one of the major features of the XDCAM workflow using the process you describe.

DONT wait to hit the import button. XDCAM Transfer imports in the background. Scrub through the clip to see if you need it, and subclip if necessary, then go straight for the Import button. Do not pass Go, Do not collect $200.

Whilst the previous clip is importing you can continue selecting, subclipping and importing ... by the time you have finished the selection process, many, if not most, of the clips will already be imported.

XDCAM Transfer is missing a lot of important features ... but this background import process "during proxy selection" is the one feature it already has that seems most widely misunderstood or under-utilized.

Hope thats a useful rant!

Cheers
Andy

[Harley Flanagan]

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

XDCAM Transfer will log your clips and then ingest straight into the FCP bin. Go through the clips, marking in/out and hitting the '+' button to be added to the list. You can take multiple shots from one clip or just use the whole clip. After you have all of the clips that you want, do a Sort->By subclip. This will put all clips with in/out marks at the top. Rubber band select those clips and hit import. They will be automatically added to the bin in FCP if you launch the application from within FCP using File ->Import ->XDCAM. If you launch the application stand-alone, it will import the files to the directory specified in XDCAM Transfer preferences, but won't add them to the FCP bin.

Hey Greg..

Thanks for your reply...

I think you might have missed my point. PDZ Browser and XDCAM Transfer are two very different things. Yes, XDCAM transfer allows you to set in and out points on clips, but it's purpose is to INGEST media. We need a solution for producers to log clips and provide editors with EDLS. PDZ Browser can do this, but not without providing every user with an XDCAM deck. With 10+ producers in our facility, that is not feasible .

[Andy Mees]

hey Harley

did you follow up on the networked device idea? an f70, for example, can certainly accept a network card, which would make it directly addressable by all of your 10+ producers, over ethernet, without them each needing it as a direct attatched device.

would be interested to hear your thoughts and/or discoveries regarding such a setup

cheers
Andy

[Harley Flanagan]

Originally Posted by Andy Mees

hey Harley

did you follow up on the networked device idea? an f70, for example, can certainly accept a network card, which would make it directly addressable by all of your 10+ producers, over ethernet, without them each needing it as a direct attatched device.

would be interested to hear your thoughts and/or discoveries regarding such a setup

cheers
Andy

Yo..

We DO have a network card. Sony threw it in...I'm going to try installing it today! Still though...only one would be able to work on it at a time though.

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by Andy Mees

Hey Greg

Mate, you're missing one of the major features of the XDCAM workflow using the process you describe.

DONT wait to hit the import button. XDCAM Transfer imports in the background. Scrub through the clip to see if you need it, and subclip if necessary, then go straight for the Import button. Do not pass Go, Do not collect $200.

Whilst the previous clip is importing you can continue selecting, subclipping and importing ... by the time you have finished the selection process, many, if not most, of the clips will already be imported.

XDCAM Transfer is missing a lot of important features ... but this background import process "during proxy selection" is the one feature it already has that seems most widely misunderstood or under-utilized.

Yes, you're quite right Andy. You don't have to wait to finish all your selections before importing. That's one way of doing it. Also, I think if you want multiple subclips from the same clip, you need to use the '+' button (that's its purpose) before importing that clip. Part of the reason I haven't gone the method you describe is because I don't do much editing and have been simply bulk importing to QT files on a hard drive that gets handed of to the producer at the conclusion of the shoot. I just shave off the obvious portions of clips that are unusable.

I was messing around in XDCAM transfer the other evening and found the list view. Very handy because it lists more clip attributes than you get in the thumbnail view and the list can be sorted on any field. But here's a major missing function IMO...you can't export that list as a CSV file or otherwise. You can't even copy to the clipboard to paste in another application. That would be excellent as a spreadsheet import to print out a list of the shots on the disc.

-gb-

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by Harley Flanagan

Hey Greg..

Thanks for your reply...

I think you might have missed my point. PDZ Browser and XDCAM Transfer are two very different things. Yes, XDCAM transfer allows you to set in and out points on clips, but it's purpose is to INGEST media. We need a solution for producers to log clips and provide editors with EDLS. PDZ Browser can do this, but not without providing every user with an XDCAM deck. With 10+ producers in our facility, that is not feasible .

I hesitated to answer for awhile because I was having a hard time grasping what you are after. It's kind of one of those situations where if I was there and you were showing it to me, I could probably figure something out. I have access to both OS platforms and have used both PDZ Proxy Browser and XDCAM transfer.

You do realize there are two versions of the Proxy Browsing software right? One version is a live version (must have disc present). The other is an offline type and will work once the disc is added to the catalog and the proxies imported. They remain on your hard drive and you can build story boards in the lower portion without the deck or camera present. You create cliplists in the lower part and can export EDL's, the full res media (using partial FAM copy), export the story viewer to an .ASF file, etc. You would need a deck or camera present to write the cliplist back to disc though.

One other thing to note is that you don't ever modify the proxy files from the sub directory. It will not update the main clip. If you modify or remove a clip, you should only use the full res clip and the system will update the proxy info accordingly.

-gb-