Have to buy asap, DSR450, XDCAM 350 or 330?

Tip McPartland · November 20th, 2006, 01:35 AM

I basically A/B'd Nate's 9x3.8 lens with my rather pricey HD Fuji, which is the 13x3.3 and if there much real difference, I couldn't see it under the circumstances. Of course the Fuji goes a bit wider, has somewhat more zoom range, has a bigger piece of glass in the front so it should gather a bit more light, and has all those digi features like variable zoom range and speed etc. but I'm positive the extra $$$$$$ I spent will NOT result in comensurately better imaging.

Tip

Alister Chapman · November 20th, 2006, 03:02 AM

Tip, that's basically what I found when I initially compared my Canon SD 19x6.7 against my Canon HD 20x6.4. There really isn't much difference. Having said that and having used the HD lens more I find that it does produce a better image. The HD lens produces a cleaner image with less CA and haze. It is also more consistent. You only really see the difference on a 32" or bigger monitor.

Andy Walton · November 20th, 2006, 10:48 AM

I have an sd canon, 12x4.8 (same as th yj 12x6.5 for 2/3), I haven't done any fancy charts but it looks really good, all my contacts have been gobsmacked at the overall quality of the camera and lens s/h cost was £1250 ( a good deal) new about £3000 I believe

Andy

Phil Bloom · November 20th, 2006, 02:41 PM

Andy that is a good deal. I have decided to buy the 2/3" convertor so when I do buy a wide angle it would be compatible with more than just my 330. I am worried that if I spend a fortune on nice glass that if I decide to change cameras one day to a 2/3" I will be stuffed!!!

Phil Bloom · November 20th, 2006, 02:46 PM

Andy that is a good deal.

I have decided to buy the 2/3" convertor so when I do buy a wide angle it would be compatible with more than just my 330. I am worried that if I spend a fortune on nice glass then if I decide to change cameras one day to a 2/3" I will be stuffed!!! I have also bought the redeye .7x non zoom through as an affordable stop gap. I have one for my z1 and it is great. Especially as I can screw it onto my canon and still use my matte box which is 82mm max.

When I need a good quality bit of wide angle glass I will be able to hire readily available 2/3" lenses, the 1/2" I have found seem to be hard to find for hire. Certainly in the two main hire places I use.

Alister Chapman · November 20th, 2006, 03:58 PM

I did some test comparing 2/3" lenses against 1/2" lenses and I would NOT recommend using 2/3" lenses unless you have no choice. The 2/3 SD lenses I tested were soft even when shooting SD compared to 1/2" SD lenses. This is probably down to the fact that the photo sites on a half inch imager are much smaller than on a 2/3 CCD. There is also increased CA as the light path lengths through the optical blocks are different. The glass element in the adapter helps but can't compensate for the fact that the Red and Blue path lengths are different. Even the top end Canon 2/3" HD lenses I tested struggled to match my much cheaper Canon KH20 1/2" HD lens. If you're only going to shoot SD then you would be OK with 2/3" HD lenses. The bottom line is that 2/3 inch lenses are not designed to work with such small photo sites and the differnet path lengths, as a result performance can be dissapointing.

Phil Bloom · November 20th, 2006, 04:19 PM

really? I've ordered it now! Do you know anywhere that hires 1/2 hd lenses in London?

Is there any way to improve the sharpness of the LCD screen, or is the resolution just too low. Compared to the Z1 LCD it's quite soft, also the z1 lcd lets you display peaking which is nice...

Can anyone recommend any softie/windjammer for the sony stereo front mic?

Thierry Humeau · November 20th, 2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bloom

really? I've ordered it now! Do you know anywhere that hires 1/2 hd lenses in London?

Is there any way to improve the sharpness of the LCD screen, or is the resolution just too low. Compared to the Z1 LCD it's quite soft, also the z1 lcd lets you display peaking which is nice...

Can anyone recommend any softie/windjammer for the sony stereo front mic?

Phil,

Your results may vary but my very own tests with using 2/3" lenses (canon broadcast grade) tell me that they can actually work pretty well.... See it at www.telecamfilms.com/xdcam.html .

The LCD screen on the F330/350 looks better when the camera is set NTSC frame rates. I am a bit puzzled by this , but I am assuming that this has to do with the signal and rescaling processing. straight lines and architectural elements show a lot more jaggies on the LCD when the camera is in PAL mode.

For camera mic windsock, I'll recommend two models from Rycote.

- Camera mounted softie: longer hair, very good for high wind environment
- Smoothie Windshield: very short hair, excellent sound quality and good wind protection in most situation. (I do prefer that one...)

Both models are availalbe in LH (large Hole) 5cm length and fit perfectly on a F330/F350 mic.

Thierry.

Phil Bloom · November 21st, 2006, 03:17 PM

are there any menu settings for the lcd? cant seem to find any. Also dumb question, and am sure it is in the manual but where can i change the audio rate from 32 to 48?

Ivan Snoeckx · November 22nd, 2006, 02:47 AM

The camera always records 48 kHz. There is no setting to change it.

Phil Bloom · November 22nd, 2006, 02:03 PM

i dont know what is the problem, but I am using my sony a1 as an on the go dvcam deck for transfering footage onto tape, whenever i play my xd into it through firewire it switches the audio record mode to 32khz. There is no setting to change it on the a1. its auto. any ideas?

Tip McPartland · November 22nd, 2006, 03:12 PM

I think what's going on is that the camera is conforming the 4-channel to the DV or DVCAM standard, which for 4 channels is always 32K.

Tip

Ivan Snoeckx · November 22nd, 2006, 03:14 PM

How many channels of audio did you record on the XDCAM HD?

It's only a guess, but could it be possible when 4 channels of audio are recorded on the F330, the A1 automatically switches to 4 channels 32 kHz like on DV or DVCAM equipment?

Try the same thing you are doing with 2 channels of audio recorded on the F330. What is the result then?

Phil Bloom · November 22nd, 2006, 03:37 PM

yeah thats what it is...I will keep it as is as channels 3 and 4 will always have my stereo mic.

thanks!

Alister Chapman · November 23rd, 2006, 02:33 AM

If you output DV/HDV over firewire then to ensure backwards compatibility the audio is converted to 4 channel 32 Khz. If you use FAM mode for file transfer then all 4 channels are exported at 48khz.

November 20th, 2006, 01:35 AM	#31
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	Nate's lens I basically A/B'd Nate's 9x3.8 lens with my rather pricey HD Fuji, which is the 13x3.3 and if there much real difference, I couldn't see it under the circumstances. Of course the Fuji goes a bit wider, has somewhat more zoom range, has a bigger piece of glass in the front so it should gather a bit more light, and has all those digi features like variable zoom range and speed etc. but I'm positive the extra $$$$$$ I spent will NOT result in comensurately better imaging. Tip

November 20th, 2006, 03:02 AM	#32
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Tip, that's basically what I found when I initially compared my Canon SD 19x6.7 against my Canon HD 20x6.4. There really isn't much difference. Having said that and having used the HD lens more I find that it does produce a better image. The HD lens produces a cleaner image with less CA and haze. It is also more consistent. You only really see the difference on a 32" or bigger monitor. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

November 20th, 2006, 02:41 PM	#34
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Andy that is a good deal. I have decided to buy the 2/3" convertor so when I do buy a wide angle it would be compatible with more than just my 330. I am worried that if I spend a fortune on nice glass that if I decide to change cameras one day to a 2/3" I will be stuffed!!! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

November 20th, 2006, 02:46 PM	#35
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	Andy that is a good deal. I have decided to buy the 2/3" convertor so when I do buy a wide angle it would be compatible with more than just my 330. I am worried that if I spend a fortune on nice glass then if I decide to change cameras one day to a 2/3" I will be stuffed!!! I have also bought the redeye .7x non zoom through as an affordable stop gap. I have one for my z1 and it is great. Especially as I can screw it onto my canon and still use my matte box which is 82mm max. When I need a good quality bit of wide angle glass I will be able to hire readily available 2/3" lenses, the 1/2" I have found seem to be hard to find for hire. Certainly in the two main hire places I use. __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

November 20th, 2006, 03:58 PM	#36
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	I did some test comparing 2/3" lenses against 1/2" lenses and I would NOT recommend using 2/3" lenses unless you have no choice. The 2/3 SD lenses I tested were soft even when shooting SD compared to 1/2" SD lenses. This is probably down to the fact that the photo sites on a half inch imager are much smaller than on a 2/3 CCD. There is also increased CA as the light path lengths through the optical blocks are different. The glass element in the adapter helps but can't compensate for the fact that the Red and Blue path lengths are different. Even the top end Canon 2/3" HD lenses I tested struggled to match my much cheaper Canon KH20 1/2" HD lens. If you're only going to shoot SD then you would be OK with 2/3" HD lenses. The bottom line is that 2/3 inch lenses are not designed to work with such small photo sites and the differnet path lengths, as a result performance can be dissapointing. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

November 20th, 2006, 10:48 AM	#33
Andy Walton New Boot Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Kent, UK Posts: 21	I have an sd canon, 12x4.8 (same as th yj 12x6.5 for 2/3), I haven't done any fancy charts but it looks really good, all my contacts have been gobsmacked at the overall quality of the camera and lens s/h cost was £1250 ( a good deal) new about £3000 I believe Andy

November 20th, 2006, 04:19 PM	#37
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	really? I've ordered it now! Do you know anywhere that hires 1/2 hd lenses in London? Is there any way to improve the sharpness of the LCD screen, or is the resolution just too low. Compared to the Z1 LCD it's quite soft, also the z1 lcd lets you display peaking which is nice... Can anyone recommend any softie/windjammer for the sony stereo front mic? __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

November 21st, 2006, 03:17 PM	#39
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	are there any menu settings for the lcd? cant seem to find any. Also dumb question, and am sure it is in the manual but where can i change the audio rate from 32 to 48? __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

November 22nd, 2006, 02:47 AM	#40
Ivan Snoeckx Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgium \| Europe Posts: 441	The camera always records 48 kHz. There is no setting to change it.

November 22nd, 2006, 02:03 PM	#41
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	i dont know what is the problem, but I am using my sony a1 as an on the go dvcam deck for transfering footage onto tape, whenever i play my xd into it through firewire it switches the audio record mode to 32khz. There is no setting to change it on the a1. its auto. any ideas? __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

November 22nd, 2006, 03:12 PM	#42
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	DVCAM 4 channel is always 32K I think what's going on is that the camera is conforming the 4-channel to the DV or DVCAM standard, which for 4 channels is always 32K. Tip

November 22nd, 2006, 03:14 PM	#43
Ivan Snoeckx Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgium \| Europe Posts: 441	How many channels of audio did you record on the XDCAM HD? It's only a guess, but could it be possible when 4 channels of audio are recorded on the F330, the A1 automatically switches to 4 channels 32 kHz like on DV or DVCAM equipment? Try the same thing you are doing with 2 channels of audio recorded on the F330. What is the result then?

November 22nd, 2006, 03:37 PM	#44
Phil Bloom Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: London UK Posts: 1,939	yeah thats what it is...I will keep it as is as channels 3 and 4 will always have my stereo mic. thanks! __________________ Philip Bloom Cinematographer, Director, Filmmaker www.philipbloom.net

November 23rd, 2006, 02:33 AM	#45
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	If you output DV/HDV over firewire then to ensure backwards compatibility the audio is converted to 4 channel 32 Khz. If you use FAM mode for file transfer then all 4 channels are exported at 48khz. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com