F350 skin detail at DVinfo.net

Carroll Lam · October 26th, 2006, 03:46 PM

Anyone out there using skin detail? (Page 69 of the new manual and P06 SKIN DETAIL on the menues.)

I follow the instructions on p69 for turning it on and setting it up. Looking at the camera output on a Dell 24" HD monitor I vary the SKIN DETAIL LEVEL from 0 to max value and I cannot see a whit of difference in the appearance of the subject. I'm zoomed in all the way so that the subjects forhead fills the screen.

I try setting the value to max and then holding in the rotary menu button for three seconds so that the detail level reverts back to zero in one step. No visible change.

OTOH, varying the DETAIL LEVEL parameter on P05 DETAIL can be detected in subject detail on the monitor.

I can detect some change when varying skin detail level on my Z1U but I just cannot see any difference on the F350.

Am I missing something?

Carroll Lam

Matthew Ernest Adams · October 26th, 2006, 08:14 PM

There's a subtle difference, but nothing dramatic. If it were too dramatic you'd end up with s subject that just looked soft.

Simon Wyndham · October 27th, 2006, 03:34 AM

You need to use the SKIN DETECT function first to tell the camera which skin tone you are trying to soften. So you need to select this and zoom in on your subject and execute this function first. Oh and turn on the Skin Area Ind too.

Can't say I'm impressed by Skin DTL functions on cameras. My recommendation is to stay away from such things.

Carroll Lam · October 27th, 2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

You need to use the SKIN DETECT function first to tell the camera which skin tone you are trying to soften. So you need to select this and zoom in on your subject and execute this function first. Oh and turn on the Skin Area Ind too.

Yep. Those are the steps given in the manual which I followed. I still cannot detect any difference, no matter what the detail level setting.

Carroll Lam

Michael Knight · October 30th, 2006, 12:33 AM

I was fortunate enough to have Greg Penniket and wife Tamara of NZCrews come over from NZ to get me started with our F350 (we both ran CP16s 30 years ago - but he now runs an XDCAM SD CineAlta).

While researching the F350 I came across some "Warm Cards" which alter the white balance just a fraction - and Greg was so impressed with them that he ordered a set for himself.

He said at the time (he was busy setting up the memory stick and user menu for my preferences) that he thought the "warm cards" might be an easier skin detail fix than anything available in the menu.

I've heard from him since that he loves them.

I don't have any financial interest in the warm cards...but if you'd like to see some "with/without" white balance and skin tone comparisons, I'd suggest you do a Google search on ,,,guess what...warm cards:-)

Warm fuzzies.

Michael.

Carroll Lam · October 30th, 2006, 11:34 AM

Yes, I've used Warm Cards. They are great for changing the _color_ of the image but they have no effect on the detail of the image.

Carroll Lam

Alister Chapman · October 30th, 2006, 01:42 PM

I'm with Simon on this one, while the effect is subtle, it just looks plain wierd when one part of the image is softer than the rest. I'de rather use an optical filtre. Maybe a pro-mist or similar, or just soften the whole image. Warming and cooling cards are helpful but with the F350/330 you can also use the white balance shift to get the same result.

Simon Wyndham · October 30th, 2006, 03:53 PM

Yep, the white balance shift is a great feature of the cameras, and much more cost effective than buying and carrying around warm cards.

Matthew Ernest Adams · October 30th, 2006, 08:24 PM

The problem with the warm cards is you have no control. It's almost like a dream to be able to warm up my color balance by 200 degrees and not gamble with the warm cards.

Thierry Humeau · October 30th, 2006, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Ernest Adams

The problem with the warm cards is you have no control. It's almost like a dream to be able to warm up my color balance by 200 degrees and not gamble with the warm cards.

The F350/330 offers many ways to quickly alter your white balance settings, I dont' really see the need for warm cards:

General menu #05
Offset White, allows you to quickly warm/cool your A or B WB settings

Paint menu #03 / White
Offset color temperature on A or B with individual control on R (Red) and B(Blue) channel.

Maintenance Menu #05
Offset your preset color temperature from the standard 3200K/5600K preset.

Use all those settings carefully and make sure you have a good HD field monitor to see how it affects your look. I really love my Panasonic BT-LH900H. It's pricey but boy, it's so sharp an accurate, it's a real pleasure to work with. Also, the built-in waveform relly helps maximizing your video levels. It's not overly bright outside so make sure you get a Hoodman for exterior locations.

Thierry.

Carroll Lam · October 31st, 2006, 11:25 AM

Hmmm. No one except Matthew has answered my original question which was: Can you detect _any_ detail change caused by the Skin Detail function?

Matthew: What your answer rhetorical or have you actually detected a Skin Detail difference on the F330 or F350?

Carroll Lam

Thierry Humeau · October 31st, 2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroll Lam

Hmmm. No one except Matthew has answered my original question which was: Can you detect _any_ detail change caused by the Skin Detail function?

Matthew: What your answer rhetorical or have you actually detected a Skin Detail difference on the F330 or F350?

Carroll Lam

Yes, skin detail works. If you do not use high correction value, it may be hard to see the difference, especially if you look at a composite monitor. In any case, I do agree with a previous poster; I'd rather use SoftFX or BlackPromist filter to do the trick.

Thierry.

Matthew Ernest Adams · October 31st, 2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroll Lam

Matthew: What your answer rhetorical or have you actually detected a Skin Detail difference on the F330 or F350?

I have detected a difference. If you're looking at an SD monitor, I'm not sure if there would be a noticable change in detail though. Hook your camera up to an HD monitor. Detect the skin color you want to change the detail on then crank the skin detail up and down and you should see the change.

Carroll Lam · November 1st, 2006, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Ernest Adams

I have detected a difference. If you're looking at an SD monitor, I'm not sure if there would be a noticable change in detail though. Hook your camera up to an HD monitor. Detect the skin color you want to change the detail on then crank the skin detail up and down and you should see the change.

I'm using a Dell 24" HD monitor viewing the HDSDI output (via an HDLink converter) and even when I've turned everything on, done the detect and zebra process, crank the settings to max value and then turn them off, I cannot detect a whit of difference.

I can see a visible difference when doing this on my Z1U but I just can't see any change with my F350. Puzzling.

Carroll Lam

Nate Weaver · November 1st, 2006, 12:36 PM

Carroll, I submit that the Dell is a poor monitor to be making critical decisions on.

We used one with an HDLink in the DV Magazine/Adam Wilt/Texas shootout and my opinion was that it was only suitable for focus and framing. And if you're on a shoot, then also suitable for content, of course.

I agree in theory that that combo should be able to show a lot of info, but in practice it's just not there.

October 26th, 2006, 03:46 PM	#1
Carroll Lam Contributor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 128	F350 skin detail Anyone out there using skin detail? (Page 69 of the new manual and P06 SKIN DETAIL on the menues.) I follow the instructions on p69 for turning it on and setting it up. Looking at the camera output on a Dell 24" HD monitor I vary the SKIN DETAIL LEVEL from 0 to max value and I cannot see a whit of difference in the appearance of the subject. I'm zoomed in all the way so that the subjects forhead fills the screen. I try setting the value to max and then holding in the rotary menu button for three seconds so that the detail level reverts back to zero in one step. No visible change. OTOH, varying the DETAIL LEVEL parameter on P05 DETAIL can be detected in subject detail on the monitor. I can detect some change when varying skin detail level on my Z1U but I just cannot see any difference on the F350. Am I missing something? Carroll Lam

October 30th, 2006, 12:33 AM	#5
Michael Knight Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Mossyrock Wa USA Posts: 65	I was fortunate enough to have Greg Penniket and wife Tamara of NZCrews come over from NZ to get me started with our F350 (we both ran CP16s 30 years ago - but he now runs an XDCAM SD CineAlta). While researching the F350 I came across some "Warm Cards" which alter the white balance just a fraction - and Greg was so impressed with them that he ordered a set for himself. He said at the time (he was busy setting up the memory stick and user menu for my preferences) that he thought the "warm cards" might be an easier skin detail fix than anything available in the menu. I've heard from him since that he loves them. I don't have any financial interest in the warm cards...but if you'd like to see some "with/without" white balance and skin tone comparisons, I'd suggest you do a Google search on ,,,guess what...warm cards:-) Warm fuzzies. Michael. __________________ All media since 1960. Formerly CP16/Nagra. Currently learning F350/Fujinon HSs18 x 5.5BRM, Mac G5 Quad and FCP Studio.

October 30th, 2006, 01:42 PM	#7
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	I'm with Simon on this one, while the effect is subtle, it just looks plain wierd when one part of the image is softer than the rest. I'de rather use an optical filtre. Maybe a pro-mist or similar, or just soften the whole image. Warming and cooling cards are helpful but with the F350/330 you can also use the white balance shift to get the same result. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

October 30th, 2006, 08:24 PM	#9
Matthew Ernest Adams Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 54	too warm The problem with the warm cards is you have no control. It's almost like a dream to be able to warm up my color balance by 200 degrees and not gamble with the warm cards.

November 1st, 2006, 12:36 PM	#15
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Carroll, I submit that the Dell is a poor monitor to be making critical decisions on. We used one with an HDLink in the DV Magazine/Adam Wilt/Texas shootout and my opinion was that it was only suitable for focus and framing. And if you're on a shoot, then also suitable for content, of course. I agree in theory that that combo should be able to show a lot of info, but in practice it's just not there. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

October 26th, 2006, 08:14 PM	#2
Matthew Ernest Adams Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 54	There's a subtle difference, but nothing dramatic. If it were too dramatic you'd end up with s subject that just looked soft.

October 27th, 2006, 03:34 AM	#3
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	You need to use the SKIN DETECT function first to tell the camera which skin tone you are trying to soften. So you need to select this and zoom in on your subject and execute this function first. Oh and turn on the Skin Area Ind too. Can't say I'm impressed by Skin DTL functions on cameras. My recommendation is to stay away from such things.

October 30th, 2006, 11:34 AM	#6
Carroll Lam Contributor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 128	Yes, I've used Warm Cards. They are great for changing the _color_ of the image but they have no effect on the detail of the image. Carroll Lam

October 30th, 2006, 03:53 PM	#8
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Yep, the white balance shift is a great feature of the cameras, and much more cost effective than buying and carrying around warm cards.

October 31st, 2006, 11:25 AM	#11
Carroll Lam Contributor Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 128	Hmmm. No one except Matthew has answered my original question which was: Can you detect _any_ detail change caused by the Skin Detail function? Matthew: What your answer rhetorical or have you actually detected a Skin Detail difference on the F330 or F350? Carroll Lam