Now that the firmware has arrived ...

Nigel Cooper · October 31st, 2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

Interesting. I had wondered about the fragmentation problem. In a way this is good because it means things can be kept organised, and I would expect those files can be recovered in some way?

Not via end-user (new firmware provides lock/unlock function to protect against this) - However, in a worse case scenario Sony can recover files from a professional disc providing it has been deleted but not rewritten over as a paid service.

Greg Boston · November 8th, 2006, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cooper

Just to add to this. Although you can select random clips to delete, they don't actually get deleted off the disc, otherwise it could become fragmented. Basically you are deleting clips so you can stay organized, but you do not create space on the disc by deleting random clips. Basically if you had filled a disc and then deleted 98% of the clips, you would still have no extra space to record onto.

Well Nigel, I have to disagree with this. I remembered your post here as I was deleting some clips off a disc that had 3 minutes left. After deleting those clips (out of the middle and randomly), it now shows having 5 to 10 minutes of record time available. I can't answer for how the disc may or may not become fragmented, but it does indeed appear to free up the space which is what I wanted anyway. To me it's useless to delete the clips from view just to help with organization. I want to recover disc space, and it appears to do just that.

-gb-

Simon Wyndham · November 8th, 2006, 03:17 PM

I concur Greg. I have just tried deleting a lot of clips off one of my discs. It was 35 mins left when I loaded it up. And now it is reading 60 minutes free after the deletion (these clips were also from the middle of the disc like your Greg.)

The disc continues to perform operations after each clip delete, so perhaps it is defragging as it goes along? If it doesn't defrag then it is also conceivable that it may use the internal cache in order to be able to park the laser at different points of the disc structure to avoid problems.

Simon Wyndham · November 8th, 2006, 03:58 PM

In addition to the above, I have just run a continuous record on the disc I tested to see whether the time left reading was false in some way. I can now confirm after having left it recording the space on the disc is definitely freed up for more recording time.

Greg Boston · November 8th, 2006, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

The disc continues to perform operations after each clip delete, so perhaps it is defragging as it goes along?

I noticed that also, Simon. A lot of ker-chunking sounds as each clip is being deleted. I'm just happy that it does give the disc space back!

And the 'Case for XDCAM' just keeps getting better. ;-)

-gb-

Nate Weaver · November 8th, 2006, 04:43 PM

I have to admit, I had figured clip delete was waiting on implementation of the picture cache...

...as it would stand to reason the only way for the device to cope with fragmentation is to use the cache as the head is seeking.

Glad to hear somebody confirmed it works!

Nigel Cooper · November 8th, 2006, 04:47 PM

This is great news. I don't understand how though as I had it straight from 2 top Sony tech guys in the UK so I had no reason to actually test it out for myself. I'll be trying it tomorrow on F350 with latest firmware. If it is true I'll be calling my Sony guys for an explanation.

I know Simon is on an SD XDCAM model, Greg, are you on F350/330 or an SD model?

As you say Greg, The Case for XDCAM just keeps on getting better!!

Greg Boston · November 8th, 2006, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cooper

Greg, are you on F350/330 or an SD model?

What? Doesn't anyone read signatures any more? (grin)

I'm on the F350.

-gb-

Nigel Cooper · November 9th, 2006, 03:44 AM

Duuuhhhhh ;)

Nigel Cooper · November 9th, 2006, 01:46 PM

Just done a test on F350 with latest firmware. I recorded a bunch of 3 to 5 minute clips until the disc said 30-25 minutes remaining. I then deleted several of the clips from the middle section of the disc by going in and deleting one at a time. Then when I'd deleted a bunch of clips the time was freed up and read 45-40 minutes remaining.

So it would appear that you can delete random clips from anywhere on the disc and the space is freed up for you to record over again.

Nice!!!

Greg Boston · November 9th, 2006, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cooper

Just done a test on F350 with latest firmware. I recorded a bunch of 3 to 5 minute clips until the disc said 30-25 minutes remaining. I then deleted several of the clips from the middle section of the disc by going in and deleting one at a time. Then when I'd deleted a bunch of clips the time was freed up and read 45-40 minutes remaining.

So it would appear that you can delete random clips from anywhere on the disc and the space is freed up for you to record over again.

Nice!!!

What, you didn't believe us? (hehe)

Now you need to have a conversation with your Sony UK guys.

-gb-

Nigel Cooper · November 9th, 2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

Now you need to have a conversation with your Sony UK guys.
-gb-

That I will be doing. I was told by the two most knowledgeable XDCAM HD guys at Sony UK. I can only assume they misunderstood the Japanese translation of this firmware update. But I will find out for sure soon.

I also really liked the fact that when you delete a random clip it shows the first, last and two mid frames of the clip so you can be absolutely sure it is the clip you want to delete.

Greg Boston · November 9th, 2006, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cooper

I also really liked the fact that when you delete a random clip it shows the first, last and two mid frames of the clip so you can be absolutely sure it is the clip you want to delete.

That is very handy. Have you also figured out the shortcut for deleting without calling up the clip menu? Just select a thumbnail, then press SHIFT & RESET(on the LCD) at the same time.

-gb-

Nigel Cooper · November 9th, 2006, 02:30 PM

Nice shortcut Greg. This F350 is going back to Sony tomorrow; only had it on 2 weeks loan :(

I'll definately be getting one of my own come January 2007 though that's for sure.

Thierry Humeau · November 9th, 2006, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cooper

Nice shortcut Greg. This F350 is going back to Sony tomorrow; only had it on 2 weeks loan :(

I'll definately be getting one of my own come January 2007 though that's for sure.

That's a cool shortcut but quite risky too...

Thierry.

November 8th, 2006, 04:43 PM	#21
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	I have to admit, I had figured clip delete was waiting on implementation of the picture cache... ...as it would stand to reason the only way for the device to cope with fragmentation is to use the cache as the head is seeking. Glad to hear somebody confirmed it works! __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

November 8th, 2006, 03:17 PM	#18
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	I concur Greg. I have just tried deleting a lot of clips off one of my discs. It was 35 mins left when I loaded it up. And now it is reading 60 minutes free after the deletion (these clips were also from the middle of the disc like your Greg.) The disc continues to perform operations after each clip delete, so perhaps it is defragging as it goes along? If it doesn't defrag then it is also conceivable that it may use the internal cache in order to be able to park the laser at different points of the disc structure to avoid problems.

November 8th, 2006, 03:58 PM	#19
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	In addition to the above, I have just run a continuous record on the disc I tested to see whether the time left reading was false in some way. I can now confirm after having left it recording the space on the disc is definitely freed up for more recording time.

November 8th, 2006, 04:47 PM	#22
Nigel Cooper Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cambridgeshire, UK Posts: 112	This is great news. I don't understand how though as I had it straight from 2 top Sony tech guys in the UK so I had no reason to actually test it out for myself. I'll be trying it tomorrow on F350 with latest firmware. If it is true I'll be calling my Sony guys for an explanation. I know Simon is on an SD XDCAM model, Greg, are you on F350/330 or an SD model? As you say Greg, The Case for XDCAM just keeps on getting better!!

November 9th, 2006, 03:44 AM	#24
Nigel Cooper Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cambridgeshire, UK Posts: 112	Duuuhhhhh ;)

November 9th, 2006, 01:46 PM	#25
Nigel Cooper Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cambridgeshire, UK Posts: 112	Just done a test on F350 with latest firmware. I recorded a bunch of 3 to 5 minute clips until the disc said 30-25 minutes remaining. I then deleted several of the clips from the middle section of the disc by going in and deleting one at a time. Then when I'd deleted a bunch of clips the time was freed up and read 45-40 minutes remaining. So it would appear that you can delete random clips from anywhere on the disc and the space is freed up for you to record over again. Nice!!!

November 9th, 2006, 02:30 PM	#29
Nigel Cooper Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cambridgeshire, UK Posts: 112	Nice shortcut Greg. This F350 is going back to Sony tomorrow; only had it on 2 weeks loan :( I'll definately be getting one of my own come January 2007 though that's for sure.