24P Strobing Issues at DVinfo.net

Erik Dinnel · August 29th, 2006, 06:37 PM

Howdy,

We're shooting with our new F330 and experiencing a lot of strobing when we shoot in 24P. To be specific, we're shooting at 24P, gamma is cine 4, high sat, 25mbps, using the Fujinon 17.5X5.5BRM-M38 HD lense; our shutter is off. The strobing primarily takes place when we pan--no matter how smoothly. And it's taking place within the camera, because we can see it in the LCD. Has anyone else experienced this? Using either the Cannon lense or the Fujinon? We'd love to hear from ya.

Thanks-

Erik
http://www.handcrankfilms.com

Matthew Ernest Adams · August 29th, 2006, 07:59 PM

I hope you'll get a more educated reply than my own, but I've noticed the speed of the pan is the most important part of panning in 24p(slower seems best).

Because of the frequency of the frames, some movements seem jerkier than others...all of it's a bit juddery since it's below 30fps...that's only a generality though. I could copy a bunch of really technical stuff that I've collected on this, but here's an interesting read that sums it up without the jargon.

http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frame...humans_see.htm

btw-great forum and very interesting posts.

Nate Weaver · August 30th, 2006, 07:46 AM

Erik, I'll give the standard answer. The F350 captures motion for all intents and purposes, just like it's bigger brother the F900. And the DVX-100. And any film camera out there. It captures 24 frames per second, at the shutter speed of your choosing...there's nothing more to it than that. As long as the intervals between each frame are evenly spaced (and they are on the F350), nothing is amiss.

So, if you're seeing strobing, it's because you're looking for it. Or put another way: if you sat down and said to yourself "I wonder if this camera has strobing problems?", and then proceeded to stare at the screen hard looking for it, you'll see strobing. The good news is you'll see it with 35mm or 16mm originated material too...nothing is wrong with the camera. The smaller the display and the higher contrast the image is, the easier it is to pick up on strobing.

I suggest shooting 24p with identical settings to a film camera: 23.98 fps, 1/48th shutter. You'll be tempted to use shutter off (which is the same as shutter being at 1/24th) to smooth things out, but it's not necessary once you take your nose away from the glass.

I apologize if I am pedantic with this post, but 24P puts a lot of people into a tizzy. Trust that if you do things right, to your audience your material will look JUST like the film they've been watching on TV their entire lives.

Erik Dinnel · August 30th, 2006, 01:12 PM

Thanks for the tips. I kind of figured that was the deal, but I'm glad to hear it from others. Nate, I'll give the 1/48th shutter a try too.

Thanks, much appreciated.

August 29th, 2006, 06:37 PM	#1
Erik Dinnel New Boot Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bellingham, WA United States Posts: 10	24P Strobing Issues Howdy, We're shooting with our new F330 and experiencing a lot of strobing when we shoot in 24P. To be specific, we're shooting at 24P, gamma is cine 4, high sat, 25mbps, using the Fujinon 17.5X5.5BRM-M38 HD lense; our shutter is off. The strobing primarily takes place when we pan--no matter how smoothly. And it's taking place within the camera, because we can see it in the LCD. Has anyone else experienced this? Using either the Cannon lense or the Fujinon? We'd love to hear from ya. Thanks- Erik http://www.handcrankfilms.com

August 29th, 2006, 07:59 PM	#2
Matthew Ernest Adams Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 54	slow it down a bit to avoid judder I hope you'll get a more educated reply than my own, but I've noticed the speed of the pan is the most important part of panning in 24p(slower seems best). Because of the frequency of the frames, some movements seem jerkier than others...all of it's a bit juddery since it's below 30fps...that's only a generality though. I could copy a bunch of really technical stuff that I've collected on this, but here's an interesting read that sums it up without the jargon. http://www.100fps.com/how_many_frame...humans_see.htm btw-great forum and very interesting posts.

August 30th, 2006, 07:46 AM	#3
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Erik, I'll give the standard answer. The F350 captures motion for all intents and purposes, just like it's bigger brother the F900. And the DVX-100. And any film camera out there. It captures 24 frames per second, at the shutter speed of your choosing...there's nothing more to it than that. As long as the intervals between each frame are evenly spaced (and they are on the F350), nothing is amiss. So, if you're seeing strobing, it's because you're looking for it. Or put another way: if you sat down and said to yourself "I wonder if this camera has strobing problems?", and then proceeded to stare at the screen hard looking for it, you'll see strobing. The good news is you'll see it with 35mm or 16mm originated material too...nothing is wrong with the camera. The smaller the display and the higher contrast the image is, the easier it is to pick up on strobing. I suggest shooting 24p with identical settings to a film camera: 23.98 fps, 1/48th shutter. You'll be tempted to use shutter off (which is the same as shutter being at 1/24th) to smooth things out, but it's not necessary once you take your nose away from the glass. I apologize if I am pedantic with this post, but 24P puts a lot of people into a tizzy. Trust that if you do things right, to your audience your material will look JUST like the film they've been watching on TV their entire lives. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

August 30th, 2006, 01:12 PM	#4
Erik Dinnel New Boot Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bellingham, WA United States Posts: 10	re: 24p strobe Thanks for the tips. I kind of figured that was the deal, but I'm glad to hear it from others. Nate, I'll give the 1/48th shutter a try too. Thanks, much appreciated.