Sony XDCAM HD -- various topics

[Emanuel Altenburger]

I´m thinking of buying a new computer for my editing work. I love Apple machines but because of having worked on a PC (Avid) for many years now, I don´t quite know that much about the new Mac machines. I just know that they look really good and have great performance. Just read in an article that writeback was supported in 5.7 on pc and mac.

thanks,
Emanuel

[Uli Mors]

Hi to all,

I am wondering if the cam still plays it if the clips have been renamed by a computer (is that possible by FAM?).
(please dont ask why, its too difficult to explain ;-) )

I know that the proxies would have to be renamed in the same manner + ext.

Can the file names be changed?

ULI

[William Osorio]

Hello guys, after working for several days with my settings on my PDW-F350 finally my product will show.

http://footage.shutterstock.com/video.html?id=35266

From now, I will be doing some other stock footage projects to be sold on that website.

William Osorio

[Richard Lesser]

Congrats
I knew it was good.

Richard

[Uli Mors]

Hi to all,

what programs support export to multichannel Audio MXF?

I want to render masses of HD MXF files (4ch audio) to SD MXF files (4 ch audio too).

Do Edius / FCP / whatever support this?

what about batch export (of a bunch of clips or regions)?

Thanks

ULI

[Andy Mees]

Edius supports native handling of MXF files but i don't know / have no experience about your specific export requirements.


FCP has no generic MXF support. But you can try using something like Sony's XDCAM Transfer plugin. With that you can export a clip to a DV or IMX MXF file with 4 channels of discreet audio

[Scott Cantrell]

TapeWorks Texas Inc. currently has 1 PDWF350L - NO Lens (Fujinon supplied a loaner lens for us) that we demo'd at NAB2007 in the CamRade booth. Product holds full manufacture warranty. Please contact TapeWorks Texas Inc toll free 866-827-3489 if you are interested in pricing on the camcorder and what lens will best fit your application.

Best Regards,
Scott Cantrell
TapeWorks Texas Inc - HDVinfo Sponser
scott@tapeworkstexas.com

[Uli Mors]

Hi,

for different reasons it turns out that I want to shoot in HD but edit in SD.
Of course I want to use the final EDL for a HD Master as well.

At the moment, everybody is saying: "Work the other way around: Edit in HD and render your master to SD for DVD or SD Playout".
But thats exactly the way I DONT WANT to go.

I have complete SD Setup including Vegas, not using a dualcore (yet), so why should I suffer under bad (MPG HD) performance when I aim at SD Playout in the first step anyway? However, shooting SD is not the alternative, so I developed a workflow to shoot in HD and edit in SD.:

THE MOST SIMPLE way would be to import (FAM) all your files to a Vegas Timeline, render a huge SD AVI (DV) file and start editing - this way you loose any connection between the SD file and the MXF HD files.
A second way could be to use the DV OUT method on the cam itself, but here you´ll have no physical relation between the HD and SD files.

Both methods are unsufficient since you have to do all your editing in HD again...

What I aimed for was a second Clip folder with identically named SD files. If realized, you could close Vegas, rename the folder and force Vegas ("where are the files?" to look into the other folder, importing HD instead SD (or vice versa).

This was necessary to achieve it:
- batch render to MXF SD or AVI SD - with same length of clips
- finding a way to keep the original names of clips

I started experimenting.

The most difficult thing was to maintain the names of the clips.
Here is a solution:

There is a Script called "VEGAS LITTLE HELPER TOOL" (VLHT) offering batch rendering, film look, region/marker definitions etc. etc.
I found 2 functions that helped me with my project:

a) Generating regions over clips & rename regions to clip name
b) batch rendering regions using the region name for the rendered clip

Guess what? Import all your HD MXF files to a vegas timeline and run script a): Now you´ll find every clip with its own region , named after the clip (typicalley 0001_E002.mxf whatever)

Now run b) and render to any format you like using "batch rendering using regions & region names".
After rendering you will find a folder with all clips (0001_E002.XYZ) in your desired format.

For perfekt editing in Vegas the ideal SD format is (DV:) SD AVI (widescreen).
So when batch rendering simply choose this format.

The last difference between our HD and SD files is the extention. The XDCAM HD files have ".mxf" , our AVI files ".avi". If you try to rename the folder and Vegas asks for the folder of your clips, pointing to the other "twin" is difficult since Vegas differentiates between these two extentions and will ask you for each clip to point at seperately - thats too much work...

MXF is a container format, able to carry different formats inside. I simply tried to rename an AVI file into MXF and look what Vegas does with it.
GREAT!: Vegas uses the renamed files exactly the way like an AVI. I used this method for one week now , believe me: There was not ONE situation where I found a different behaviour between .AVI and the renamed .mxf file - Vegas knows that there is an AVI behind and simply uses it.

Here is the last step: Use any renaming tool to change all .AVI to .MXF - be sure to have the folder properly named (SD) to avoid confusions.

____HERE IS THE SHORT VERSION of the workflow:______

- import all (FAM) MXF HD files to a folder called "HD Clips" (or whatever)
(you can also use lowres proxies to start sorting and import the necessary clips in a 2nd step)
- bring all necessary clips into a Vegas timeline (be sure that all clips have different names!)
- use VEGAS LITTLE HELPER TOOL for: a) creating regions with clip names (takes 5 seconds)
- use VEGAS LITTLE HELPER TOOL for: b) batchrendering regions to SD AVI (DV AVI widescreen) using the region names for the rendered clips. Use a folder called "SD Clips"
(takes a while depending on the power of your computer and the number of clips)
- rename all ".avi" to ".mxf" (takes 5 seconds)

Start editing a project using your "SD CLIPS" folder - taking advantage of the fluid workflow of avi editing in Vegas , its fast & reliable.

If your done or you want to see your project in HD, simply save and exit Vegas , rename your "SD CLIP" folder to anything else and re-open the project. When it comes to the question "where are the clips?" simple point to the "HD CLIPS" folder - Vegas will open the "same files" without "knowing" that they changed from SD to HD. When you change your project settings to HD you are done and can see the same timeline playing in HD.

Going back to SD? Simple, just rename the HD CLIP folder again and force Vegas to ask where the clips are (dont forget to set the properties back).

PROs & CONs:

PRO:
+ render time (to SD) is moved to the BEGINNING of the project instead of waiting for a slow rendering in the end if your work
+ editing in SD is fast & reliable
+ any SD preview hardware can be used (DV out-> DA -> Monitor)
+ SD Projects are realized with faster render times when finished
+ preview render is fast

CONTRA:
- you need twice the space on your HD (though HD clips could be re-imported later)
- some resolutions formats must be manually changed (generated media, like text gerenators etc.) or manually set to 1440 x 1080 if you work under SD project settings
- when changing from SD to HD (or HD to SD) you must manually rename the folder and manually point to the other folder (dont use hundreds of clip folders for that!)


Again, I found it absolutely helpful to work in a real SD environment - compared to edit with lowres proxies you have a full sd preview, HQ Audio , its more easy to judge if you were on focus (ok, thats limited to SD, but simply switch to HD if necessary) and your customers will work with you without waiting for pre-renders or see videos with dropped frame rates due to processing power.

______________________________

Some more thoughts:

- Right now I am working on a music video where timing is extremly important. I neither could work only on lowres proxies nor with mxf HD files due to syncing audio to video , thats horrible if you have no fluent video. The SD workflow makes that easy (difficult enough... even in SD).

- there is one limitation: Sonys batch render scripts (even the one that comes with vegas) has a bug regarding multiple channel audio export. At the moment only a 2 track (stereo) audio export works with batch rendering. That means: If you really need your SD files to be 4 channels there is no way to render that (single "render as" works fine, but batch rendering does not).
Workaround: Divide the different channels to separate Outputs (busses) and render one or more long WAV files containing the separat channels and use them with your SD files. By grouping the whole bunch editing works fine.
Honestly said: I hope that Sony fixes that bug - then SD vs HD files would be ABSOLUTELY not different.
If anybody has an idea how to fix the script rg. multichannel rendering , please let me know! I can give some more background information on my experiences.

- when working with more than one XDCAM DISK be sure that the file names are different. In the worst case files should be renamed (loosing the option to erase the HD from your harddrive and reimporting them from DISK later).
Best is to shoot projects where the clips are steadily named thruover the disks - so no clip has the same name.

OK , thats it for today.

ULI

[Simon Wyndham]

Uli, I would bypass all that lengthy workflow.

Just import the XDCAM HD footage into Vegas, but edit on an SD timeline/project settings. That way you won't take such a performance hit while editing the HD footage. This is how I edited my mountainboarding DVD. Then when I want to output an HD version I just switch the project settings to an HD configuration.

Granted, Vegas won't be quite as responsive as editing native SD footage, but if you are on a low powered computer it is still a decent solution, and allows you to use a decent XDCAM workflow instead of adding a load of extra steps to your workflow.

[Jim Montgomery]

Been having trouble inserting edit lists into timeline. There are times, very few, that the edit list drops right in at the curser. More times than not two new tracks are created but no video and or audio. The clips, in the project media, show that they are being used in the timeline but do not appear.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Jim

[Andy Mees]

which timeline Jim? what NLE are you cutting with?

[Max Bettelle]

Hello,
anybody knows how to disable the proxy import on the XDCAM software in Final Cut PRO? Also informations on FCP studio 2 would be great !!! Thanks!

[Andy Mees]

Max

Proxy import cannot be disabled as of the current version (v1.1.0) of the XDCAM Transfer software on the Mac/FCP.

There is a new version of the software (version 2.0) that was announced at NAB and is expected to be released in September this year. This new version notes the ability to read proxies directly from disc, rather than caching (downloading) them to a local hard drive. (see the last part of the following info):

"... the following new features: clip rename and deletion, quick thumbnail load, metadata editing, connect multiple XDCAM devices via FAM, import with 'Disc Name + Clip Name', improve performance of partial HD clip import, cliplist preview and import partial HR clip, support for PDW-U1 bare drive. The transfer speeds are going to be faster too. This is because proxies are currently cached and are not accessed directly from the disc. With the new PDZK-P1 software the proxies will be accessed directly from disc so overall transfer/import times will be much quicker."

[Max Bettelle]

Hello everybody!
Anybody noticed that the ATW on the F330 gives to the pictures a greenish look? BTW the manual white balance works well! I know that the manual white balance is the best choice, but sometime ATW is helpful! Any suggestion on how to get a neutral ATW? Thanks to all! :)

[Robert Schemitsch]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone of you know, if there is a possibility to use the >genlock in< as a >return video in<? I use the PDW-F350. The SD - XDCAM - cameras offer this feature.

Best regards,
Robert