Sony XDCAM HD -- various topics

James Venturi · January 18th, 2009, 10:23 AM

How do these cameras perform with regards to noise?

I have not worked with the PDW700 yet and I am afraid of buying one and being disappointed by the result when compared to the F900R.

The chip in the 700 seems better than the 900, the recording mechanism seems better--especially when using the XDR at 100mbps, but are the other factors I should be considering?

thanks,

jim

Alister Chapman · January 18th, 2009, 12:58 PM

The PDW-700 front end has a little less noise than the 900R, but it's a tiny difference. However the XDCAM codec introduces a bit of mosquito noise so if you are recording to disk noise amounts appear similar. If you were using an XDR at 100Mbps I would guess that would give you a cleaner image. More noticeable is the PDW-700's extra resolution. If you are doing your own productions then the XDCAM workflow offers some big cost savings as you don't need a deck to import the footage with accurate timecode etc. As the PDW-700 deck requires no maintenance there are savings to be had there too. Plus you don't get drop-outs!

Daniel Larson · January 30th, 2009, 11:35 AM

When I shoot in 1080 24 frame HQ the timecode shows as free run and will not set to record run. When I shoot in 30 frame it works fine and I can easily set the timecode. Is this due to the 24 frame calculation being too difficult for the timecode circuitry to be set manually. Incidentily, when I click to clock time it picks up that timecode number and doesn't miss a beat. Not a big deal but I do like to code the discs with reel numbers that match with timecode hour.

Dan

Steve Phillipps · February 13th, 2009, 04:19 PM

Why is there component out on the EX3 but not on big brother PDW700? Be very useful for monitoring on HDTV.
Steve

Thierry Humeau · February 13th, 2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps

Why is there component out on the EX3 but not on big brother PDW700? Be very useful for monitoring on HDTV.
Steve

I would guess, no professional wants to deal with a 3-wire component + audio cables these days. The single HD-SDI cable for video/audio is a much more practicle and elegant solution. Plus, this camera is already loaded with feaures and anything you add cost money and consumes power.

Thierry.

James Venturi · February 16th, 2009, 06:53 PM

Ok, I probably should post this in the FCP forum, but it relates so much to the PDW700, I am posting it here.

I did some tests using the EX1 with individual frame advance and when footage is recorded at 1080p25, and dropped into a 1080p23.98 ProresHQ sequence, it drops frame 13 to achieve this. There is no frame blending.

If you choose conform 25p to 24p in the tools menu, it will change the media and turn frame 25 to frame 1 of the next second, making your footage that much longer. To do this, first you have to convert the footage to ProResHQ.

We have tested this and with the PDW700 also and so far we don't miss frame 13. It will be nice when the new firmware is out, but this is such a fantastic deal of a camera now that it was not worth waiting for 24p when 25 is nearly equivalent.

Greg Boston · February 18th, 2009, 06:55 AM

The audio will change pitch slightly IIRC. But the change is small enough that it's well within the capabilities of modern audio editing software to re-time and maintain pitch.

But that is a handy workaround to the lack of 24P.

-gb-

Gene Bauer · February 18th, 2009, 10:41 AM

When I shoot in the HD 420 35 mbs mode, do I get a 1440 x 1080 on file or a 1920?

Simon Wyndham · February 18th, 2009, 05:30 PM

1440x1080 for backwards compatibility with with the 1/2" disc based cameras.

James Venturi · February 21st, 2009, 08:25 AM

Does the use of 60 cycle Diva bulbs cause a flicker when recording on the PDW-700 in 25p mode?

thanks,

Jim

Alister Chapman · February 27th, 2009, 03:57 PM

The Diva's have a high frequency ballast so you shouldn't have any problems.

Thierry Humeau · April 16th, 2009, 06:57 PM

Wait, wait... I am not sure what the issue is here. AVID's new software versions (Media Composer 3.5, NewsCutter 3.5, ...) do a terrific job handling proxy/hires clips whether you are logging, importing or batch importing. You can log/rename your clips on one system and batch import to hi-res on another one. The only file that needs to be carried accross the process is the sequence, that is it. This process is now flowless and very fast

In order for relink to work, proxies need to be imported directly from a XDCAM disc. If proxies are copied on a hard drive, DVD or other storage device you need to duplicate the folder/XML files structure of the XD disc at the root level of the storage device. Note that clips can be renamed any way you want in the AVID bins and clip names can be different from one system to another. AVID completely ignores the clip names in bins and instead, tracks and reads clips and disc metadata. Write back works equally well. No complicated sequence or export settings to figure out. Just choose "Export to XDCAM Device" and select your bit rate and sequence tracks to be exported. There is also an option to only export a section of a sequence based on the selected area. One very useful feature with the tightly integrated files and metadata management is that it is very easy to rebuilt and old XDCAM sequence which mediafiles have been deleted. Select the sequence, choose "batch import" and the system will call up for the proper disc names to be inserted. Note that since the software is actually reading the disc metadata (its social security number sort of speak...), if the wrong disc is inserted, it will be rejected.

Thierry.

Thierry Humeau · April 17th, 2009, 06:03 AM

By the way, there is an excellent white paper on XDCAM HD and EX workflow available from AVID at http://www.avid.com/xdcam/Sony_XDCAM_Workflow_Guide.pdf. This dates from 3.0 versions but the XDCAM HD stuff is almost 100% good. The EX part needs to be updated and the memo does not talk about the new AMA (Avid Media Access) feature which permits editing directly from SxS memory card, XDCAM HD discs or virtual XDCAM volume bypassing the need to import footage in AVID's media folder.

Thierry.

January 18th, 2009, 10:23 AM	#226
James Venturi Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 81	PDW700 vs. F900R Noise How do these cameras perform with regards to noise? I have not worked with the PDW700 yet and I am afraid of buying one and being disappointed by the result when compared to the F900R. The chip in the 700 seems better than the 900, the recording mechanism seems better--especially when using the XDR at 100mbps, but are the other factors I should be considering? thanks, jim

January 18th, 2009, 12:58 PM	#227
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	The PDW-700 front end has a little less noise than the 900R, but it's a tiny difference. However the XDCAM codec introduces a bit of mosquito noise so if you are recording to disk noise amounts appear similar. If you were using an XDR at 100Mbps I would guess that would give you a cleaner image. More noticeable is the PDW-700's extra resolution. If you are doing your own productions then the XDCAM workflow offers some big cost savings as you don't need a deck to import the footage with accurate timecode etc. As the PDW-700 deck requires no maintenance there are savings to be had there too. Plus you don't get drop-outs! __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

January 30th, 2009, 11:35 AM	#228
Daniel Larson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: De Pere, WI Posts: 47	F335 Timecode in 1080 24 frame When I shoot in 1080 24 frame HQ the timecode shows as free run and will not set to record run. When I shoot in 30 frame it works fine and I can easily set the timecode. Is this due to the 24 frame calculation being too difficult for the timecode circuitry to be set manually. Incidentily, when I click to clock time it picks up that timecode number and doesn't miss a beat. Not a big deal but I do like to code the discs with reel numbers that match with timecode hour. Dan

February 13th, 2009, 04:19 PM	#229
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Another thing the EX has that PDW700 doesn't! Why is there component out on the EX3 but not on big brother PDW700? Be very useful for monitoring on HDTV. Steve

February 16th, 2009, 06:53 PM	#231
James Venturi Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 81	PDW700 @ 25p to FinalCut 23.98p Answers Ok, I probably should post this in the FCP forum, but it relates so much to the PDW700, I am posting it here. I did some tests using the EX1 with individual frame advance and when footage is recorded at 1080p25, and dropped into a 1080p23.98 ProresHQ sequence, it drops frame 13 to achieve this. There is no frame blending. If you choose conform 25p to 24p in the tools menu, it will change the media and turn frame 25 to frame 1 of the next second, making your footage that much longer. To do this, first you have to convert the footage to ProResHQ. We have tested this and with the PDW700 also and so far we don't miss frame 13. It will be nice when the new firmware is out, but this is such a fantastic deal of a camera now that it was not worth waiting for 24p when 25 is nearly equivalent.

February 18th, 2009, 06:55 AM	#232
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	The audio will change pitch slightly IIRC. But the change is small enough that it's well within the capabilities of modern audio editing software to re-time and maintain pitch. But that is a handy workaround to the lack of 24P. -gb-

February 18th, 2009, 10:41 AM	#233
Gene Bauer Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 28	PDW 700 HD 420 codec When I shoot in the HD 420 35 mbs mode, do I get a 1440 x 1080 on file or a 1920?

February 18th, 2009, 05:30 PM	#234
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	1440x1080 for backwards compatibility with with the 1/2" disc based cameras.

February 21st, 2009, 08:25 AM	#235
James Venturi Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 81	60 Hz Divalite with 25p recording Does the use of 60 cycle Diva bulbs cause a flicker when recording on the PDW-700 in 25p mode? thanks, Jim

February 27th, 2009, 03:57 PM	#236
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	The Diva's have a high frequency ballast so you shouldn't have any problems. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

April 16th, 2009, 06:57 PM	#237
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	Wait, wait... I am not sure what the issue is here. AVID's new software versions (Media Composer 3.5, NewsCutter 3.5, ...) do a terrific job handling proxy/hires clips whether you are logging, importing or batch importing. You can log/rename your clips on one system and batch import to hi-res on another one. The only file that needs to be carried accross the process is the sequence, that is it. This process is now flowless and very fast In order for relink to work, proxies need to be imported directly from a XDCAM disc. If proxies are copied on a hard drive, DVD or other storage device you need to duplicate the folder/XML files structure of the XD disc at the root level of the storage device. Note that clips can be renamed any way you want in the AVID bins and clip names can be different from one system to another. AVID completely ignores the clip names in bins and instead, tracks and reads clips and disc metadata. Write back works equally well. No complicated sequence or export settings to figure out. Just choose "Export to XDCAM Device" and select your bit rate and sequence tracks to be exported. There is also an option to only export a section of a sequence based on the selected area. One very useful feature with the tightly integrated files and metadata management is that it is very easy to rebuilt and old XDCAM sequence which mediafiles have been deleted. Select the sequence, choose "batch import" and the system will call up for the proper disc names to be inserted. Note that since the software is actually reading the disc metadata (its social security number sort of speak...), if the wrong disc is inserted, it will be rejected. Thierry. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com Last edited by Thierry Humeau; April 17th, 2009 at 05:57 AM.

April 17th, 2009, 06:03 AM	#238
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	By the way, there is an excellent white paper on XDCAM HD and EX workflow available from AVID at http://www.avid.com/xdcam/Sony_XDCAM_Workflow_Guide.pdf. This dates from 3.0 versions but the XDCAM HD stuff is almost 100% good. The EX part needs to be updated and the memo does not talk about the new AMA (Avid Media Access) feature which permits editing directly from SxS memory card, XDCAM HD discs or virtual XDCAM volume bypassing the need to import footage in AVID's media folder. Thierry. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com