XDCAM HD - new forum?

[Kevin Shaw]

Now that the Sony XDCAM HD cameras & deck have been officially announced, should we consider having a new forum to discuss those items? Looks like some very nice gear, at fairly reasonable prices for what you get:

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/6450

[Mike Marriage]

I think they will sell like hotcakes

[Ash Greyson]

While Sony has seemed to lose some ground in the indie world they are a monster in the pro broadcast world. Much of the sales of Sony HDV cams were to ENG and pro broadcaster types. XDCAM has slowly got some following but this could vault it into the stratosphere, on paper the specs are terrific, variable frame rates, etc. etc. etc. If it can be easily incorporated into a simple workflow I think many people will bypass the XLH and the HVX for the XDCAM-HD solution. 120 minutes for $30 is a punch in the gut to P2.



ash =o)

[Kevin Shaw]

It's also worth noting that the XDCAM HD records up to 35 Mbps, which is almost the same data rate as the HVX200 running in 720p/24 mode. It'll be interesting to see how MPEG2 HD looks at the maximum quality setting, coming from three 1/2" sensors.

[Mike Marriage]

Sony just own the Pro market in the UK. I was outside Parliament today and everyone has Sonys. Amony the 570s still the odd Beta SP dinosaur. I think XDCAM sales have been staggered as a lot of cameramen are making do until they find a suitable HD upgrade. That way their camera will probably have double the shelf life (and resale value). I don't think it is a good time to drop 20k+ on an SD camera.

[Keith Wakeham]

I'm pretty sure Chris Hurd will eventually get around to replying with when their is enough posts about the cameras/decks/etc he'll make a spot for it because he won't open a new section that is empty. Totally makes sense.

So if we want a spot about XDCAM then we just need to start some threads, relavant ones at least.

Definetly thinking it won't be to long before their will be a section opened about it.

... or a whole new section of forums. Before deciding on the HVX (which I still don't have, and don't know when I will have), I looked at some of the lower cost 2/3" cams like the Sony DSR-450. But from what I can tell, even if I saved long enough to be able to afford the camera, there are the other cost associated with editing, storing and distributing when you step up to that level.

As for another section, I'd always be interested in seeing what's going on with 1/2" and 2/3" cameras. I can't afford one right now, but as prices on 1/3" cams like H1's and HVX's continue to go up, they are getting closer to entry level 1/2" & 2/3" cameras. And while researching my camera purchase I've run across threads such as <insert 1/3" cam here> VERSUS <insert 1/2" or 2/3" cam here>. So it seems there are people out there thinking "If I'm going to pay $X,XXX for this 1/3" camera, why not $XX,XXX for a 1/2" or 2/3" camera that can offer other advantages?"

It also seems that as the 1/3" cameras get more advanced that we may start seeing more DP's using a combination of 1/3", 1/2" and 2/3" cameras. We've already seen that start to occur.

I'd welcome the opinions and advice from the folks who use that gear and many of us would have a common interest in other aspects of the industry such as lighting, sound, etc.

[John McGinley]

Originally Posted by Derek West

... or a whole new section of forums. Before deciding on the HVX (which I still don't have, and don't know when I will have), I looked at some of the lower cost 2/3" cams like the Sony DSR-450. But from what I can tell, even if I saved long enough to be able to afford the camera, there are the other cost associated with editing, storing and distributing when you step up to that level.

As for another section, I'd always be interested in seeing what's going on with 1/2" and 2/3" cameras. I can't afford one right now, but as prices on 1/3" cams like H1's and HVX's continue to go up, they are getting closer to entry level 1/2" & 2/3" cameras. And while researching my camera purchase I've run across threads such as <insert 1/3" cam here> VERSUS <insert 1/2" or 2/3" cam here>. So it seems there are people out there thinking "If I'm going to pay $X,XXX for this 1/3" camera, why not $XX,XXX for a 1/2" or 2/3" camera that can offer other advantages?"

It also seems that as the 1/3" cameras get more advanced that we may start seeing more DP's using a combination of 1/3", 1/2" and 2/3" cameras. We've already seen that start to occur.

I'd welcome the opinions and advice from the folks who use that gear and many of us would have a common interest in other aspects of the industry such as lighting, sound, etc.

Considering the F330 is going to retail at $16,800 it really isn't a huge leap from some of these other cameras. How much would a HVX with enough P2 cards to equal a single XDCAM disc cost?

[Chris Hurd]

I don't know if we're doing everybody justice if we put an XDCAM board under "Affordable HD Acquisition." Is it time for "Professional HD Acquisition," or would that be a slam to the professionals who are working with less expensive gear? See, this is what keeps me awake at night.

[Chris Hurd]

Another option is to group the XDCAM and P2 boards under a general MXF file format category. Seems like all the higher-end tapeless gear is leaning toward MXF.

[Shannon Rawls]

For categories, how about.....

"1/3" HD (and smaller)"
and
"1/2" HD (and larger)"


or


"Small HD"
and
"Big HD"


or my suggestion....


Just keep ALL HD under...

"General HD / HDV"

like you have it now. I think this is a wonderful place for XDCAM cameras or anything that is considered High Definition.

- ShannonRawls.com

[Chris Hurd]

Speaking of half-inch, or third-inch... I'm going to campaign for abolishing those antiquated terms. Talk about some useless nomenclature. What the industry refers to as a "third-inch" CCD is in reality quite a bit smaller than a third of an inch, and besides, isn't even supposed to be measured in inches. The factory that makes them doesn't measure them in fractions of an inch, so why should we. See my notes about CCD nomenclature at http://www.dvinfo.net/canonoptura/ar...eage.php#opccd

Maybe we need a 7mm CCD forum. Actually we're probably better off calling it small sensor, medium sensor and large. Or super-size, or biggie, or whatever.

[Keith Wakeham]

I think the method of dividing up the groups might just turn into a hot topic.

Dividing up via MXF and, i dunno - hdv, sounds fairly good. It allows for expandibility but what happens if say a camera came out that didn't use MXF or HDV. It might very well get lost.

But I think Shannon has a point. Lets keep HD under HD. HDV, P2, XDCAM - they are all HD so that works. But This is all under the heading of Affordable High Def. So how about a price point barrier. So long as its camera only price, sub 10k go under afforable, and then you just start a group called something like higher end.

Chris, I think your currently methodology works - If theirs enough topics then you need to look at this, if not then what their currently is works. XDCAM might stay in the realm of broadcast and not to many people will have it or talk about it here. This is just going to be a wait and see game I think.

Love to see if their is much difference between the 330 and 350 when they are avaiable. To bad both don't have HD-SDI :(

[Chris Hurd]

Thanks for your input, Keith... much appreciated...

Originally Posted by Keith Wakeham

what happens if say a camera came out that didn't use MXF or HDV.

New category then. That's what!

It really does seem to me that so far that it's shaping up to be HDV tape-based cameras on the one hand, and then a higher-end MXF-based tapeless group on the other hand (these being Panasonic P2 flash memory and Sony XDCAM optical disc).

[John McGinley]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Another option is to group the XDCAM and P2 boards under a general MXF file format category. Seems like all the higher-end tapeless gear is leaning toward MXF.

tapeless HD acquisition doesn't sound too insulting.