XDCAM HD various topics

[Max Kaiser]

I was curious about which mode to capture in if I want to basically work with the footage as hdv right alongside hdv capture at 1080i60 from an fx1? I thought I'd seen that this camera shoots hdv, but now that I've got the camera, I don't see that setting anywhere (although it looks like the codec may be the same). I know that this won't be the highest level of capture, but it will provide a workflow we can use right away.

Is this something I set the camera for, or is it how I use the mxf transfer?

Thanks,
Max

[Greg Boston]

Max,

You would want to use the 25mbs CBR mode which is LP. They use odd naming for the three levels of capture, SP, LP, and HQ.

LP is the mode that matches the data rate of HDV. However, with true 1440 horizontal resolution and larger chips, you could still see a better picture with the XDCAM HD so some in camera tweaking might be necessary to get a closer match to the HDV camera.

-gb-

[Alister Chapman]

25Mb is SP (standard play) 35Mb is HQ (high quality) and 18Mb is LP (long Play).

25Mb CBR is very close to HDV and most HDV applications can handle the files provided they can decode/un-wrap the MXF file.

[Josh Dahlberg]

Has anyone experimented with fx rendering/colour correction at 35Mb/s vs 25Mb/s?

I'm curious to know whether or not the extra bandwidth makes a significant difference. Does the 35Mb/s rate hold up significantly better to post manipulation than standard HDV compression?

While not expecting miracles, I'm really hoping to hear some positive news on this one. Thanks in advance.

[Alister Chapman]

35Mb is definately more robust. You can see the difference clearly when you try to colour correct similar clips, the 35Mb clips can be pushed harder.

[James Q. Manning]

I'm approaching shooting in a couple of weeks, and we'll be shooting with a first generation Sony f900, which shoots 720p or 1080i. It doesn't have the capability to shoot 1080p like later model CineAlta's do.

My question is this: Is it better to shoot 1080i and then later use software to convert to 720p? Or is it better to shoot straight 720p within the camera itself?

I'd assume the latter will result in a better image quality, but I've been told there's no visible difference. Figure'd I'd bring it to the experts here. Thanks!

[Simon Wyndham]

James are you sure? To my knowledge HDCAM cameras have never been able to shoot 720p, and the F900 has always been capable of 1080p, even in its first incarnation.

I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong though.

[Nate Weaver]

Backing up Simon. None of the Sony cameras have ever shot 720p to my knowledge, and the first F900s always had 24p capability.

Sounds like you might have your hands on an HDW-700A, a 1080i camera only.

Also, no matter what you are working with, I don't think it's wise to shoot one format and then cross-convert just to edit. The time and money involved will almost certainly be more than it would cost to get the camera/format you need in the first place.

[Martin Downer]

Hi All,

I've read through the majority of the posts on this forum, to try and find out as much information as I can regarding this camera. But being a relative 'newbie' to the area of professional production, I need a couple of bespoke answers to questions, or a little help on where to find the information if that's at all possible?

I'm currently running with 2 Canon XL1s's, a Canon XM-1 (GL1 i think in US) and a Canon XL2.

I produce DVDs of Motocross events throughout the UK, and have now a chance to produce some things for TV. We are also going to do Podcasting (studio type show) for Motocross fans too as our own project.

I've been looking at the XDCAM HD because when we film, we film probably 5 hours/day, with 4 cameras, meaning 20 hours of recorded footage to sift through and record to desktop. Which roughly translates to 3 days without the use of an edit machine after logging and manual tape changes etc. The XDCAM without the need for logging sure would be a great feature for us. The XDCAM workflow seems terrific, and would save us an awful lot of time here, meaning the cameras cost would eventually pay off on production time.

My first question is, the transfer of data from camera to edit, how long would it take? Each camera would record 1 race at 20mins per race. If for instance I just wanted to edit 1 race, and had to pull one clip from each camera for multi-cam edit, how long would it take for transfer? I found lots of references to 'faster than real-time' but couldn't find anything to specifically say, it takes X amount of time to transfer a specific size of file.

My second question, I know that there are MANY different frame rates, bit rates etc, but running the highest level bit-rate (35mbits) for use on television/dvd, is it possible for Premiere Pro 2 to handle, running both edit stations on P4 3Gig, 2gb ram, 128mb graphics, 1tb storage each.

Using the canon's on all my previous productions enabled me to run the standard lenses, using auto-focus. The majority of the time this provided great results. The 330 has the Auto focus lens, how good is this lens? I've seen many posts referring to an SD lens on this camera providing so-so/soft results, i know this is an HD lens, but how good are the results? Can it still be used as a Manual lens in the same way any other lens is used?

Final question, I will need to purchase 4 of these cameras, and the budget is a main issue (like always) would it be recommended to get a XDCAM VTR, and if so which model? I've seen there are two (F70 & F30). What is the advantage of the F70 over the F30 that gives it a price tag of double? I've read through the bumph on specifications etc, but in my scenario, what would you experienced pro's recommend for my situation?

I really appreciate any responses you may provide. I hope my questions haven't been answered before, i've trawled the majority of this forum finding lots of great information, but none specifically led me to the answers to these questions. If you have the time to reply, I thank you.

Regards
Martin Downer

[Alister Chapman]

Transfer rate depends on the bit rate you record at. For 35mb transfer is approx 1.5 x real time, for 25mb or DV you are at about 1.8x real time using the camera as a source. The decks are about 30% faster. But it's not quite as simple as that, you also need to consider that you should never get dropped frames or aborted transfers as you are transfering data so even if the computer/drive or whatever is running slow then the transfer rate slows as opposed to stopping or dropping frames as with tape. Also you will have accurate time code, you can instantly access any of the clips on the disk without cueing and you can (or will) depending on the software be able to import in the background allowing you to start editing before you've finished capturing. So overall I am finding that I am able to get most projects from disk and onto my edit suite in half the time that it takes with tape and with far fewer issues.

At the moment the only plugin for PPro 2 that will handle 35Mb or 25Mb XD is the mainconcept plugin. At the moment this has a bug in it's memory handling which I have been assured will be fixed in the next few weeks. With this plugin you will be able to edit in realtime and then export back to disk. Note that to import you simply use the Sony PDZ software and drivers to open the disk and import the file by copying them from the camera to your hard drive, export is a case of dragging your rendered final file back to the camera.

HD autofocus systems tend to be slower than SD autofocus. If you are working on HD then you will find HD focus to be both critical and tricky. With SD you can be a little out of focus and not be able to see it. With HD if the focus isn't absolutly spot on then it really show. I have no experience of the auto focus lens so I cannot comment, but I have yet to hear anyone say anything positive about it, other tan the price. My opinion is that you really really need to have the very best lens you can afford and I'm not convinced that autofocus would cope with fast moving bikes.
The autofocus len can be used in manula mode, but it is a servo lens with no direct connection between the focus ring and the optics, so you will suffer from the same lag and lack of repeatability that you get with most consumer camcorders.

F30 doesn't record from external inputs such as SDi or Component, F70 does. You could us a camera as a source/record deck. Unlike tape there are no heads as such to wear out, however you will be putting extra hours on the disc drive, although I believe this should last somewhere around 8,000 hours and even then is cheapish to replace, certainly cheaper than re-heading a pro vtr. The decks are faster when it comes to proxy access and file transfers.

I would NOT buy F330's, unless you get them with the F350 viewfinder. The F330 VF is really not up to HD work. It's a 1.5 inch 4:3 CRT so if you working with HD or 16:9 SD you get a tiny letterboxed image and it's extremely difficult (if not impossible) to be sure that you are in focus. The F350 VF is a 2" widescreen VF so the image is almost twice the size.

Many users are reporting good, certainly useable results with half inch SD lenses. I think you should consider trying to pick up 4 used good quality SD lenses and 4 x F350's with a view to upgrading the lenses at a later date. I also think that once you start to go down the HD road you will find HD-SDi far more useful than component.

[Simon Wyndham]

Yet more competition, which should be good for prices :-)

http://www.inphase-technologies.com/...llExhibit.html

[Martin Downer]

Thanks for the reply! Very inciteful.

1.5x would be extremely useful for us, and the fact i can transfer the files in the background while editing the first race say, is actually a bonus i never thought would be possible.

The main concept sounds good, ill do a bit of a google on that one later tomorrow when I get back from todays filming session. Does it crash the system or something? Hope they get it fixed soon.

When you talk about a slow HD autofocus, would it still be the same if i was capturing in 25mb DVCAM? Sorry if thats a stupid question...

What is the advantage of recording HDSDi? If you can transfer the full 35mb files from the camera to computer in 1.5x realtime, then how is having to playback at 1x an advantage?

So would you recommend the F330 camera at all? If i got the F350 viewfinder or a studio VF or something like that? I need someone's professional oppinion on this so that I can make a more informed choice!

Many users are reporting good, certainly useable results with half inch SD lenses.

When you say 'certainly useable' this seems to me like a real negative view on the lenses. Would this still be good enough for TV? Would it be noticable to someone who watches TV and has no knowlegde of cameras/lenses etc.

As you can tell i'm a newbie to HD also! So thanks for your help, and understanding.

Regards
Martin

[Nate Weaver]

Barely worth a post, but just a weird little bit of a story.

Returning home around noon from Burbank just 45 minutes ago, and realized 2 cars ahead of me is a black Tahoe with a rear facing stabilizer mount and remote head. Not that noteworthy, as you see production vehicles on their way to shoots all the time in my neighborhood, sometimes the cameras are mounted on the pictures cars already, etc etc.

Anyway, as I pull up to get a better look, I realized it was a 350 on the remote head! Kinda odd I thought, as XDCAM HD is still very much a "wha?" to most production people, even in Los Angeles. THEN I realized the tally light was on and he was rolling on me. Yow.

I have no idea what they were doing...my neighborhood is pretty but all they were was driving down the street rolling and following cars passing them, etc.

For the curious, the mount is something Chapman makes called the Super VI. It operates like a single section of steadicam arm, except it's motion is limited to strictly up and down. On top of that, there's another stage that slides laterally. Both together do a pretty good job of smoothing out a vehicle.

[Matthew Ernest Adams]

Haven't heard anything about the XDCAM HD update. No buffering yet?

Also, has anyone had any success in getting the front mic pot to function correctly. I've set mine in the menu to adjust channel-1 from the first side pot and the front pot, but the front pot doesn't do anything.

edit---sorry missed the USB drive thread

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ernest Adams

Also, has anyone had any success in getting the front mic pot to function correctly. I've set mine in the menu to adjust channel-1 from the first side pot and the front pot, but the front pot doesn't do anything.

Works okay for me. I like having it set up to control 1 and 2 from side and front. That way, the 1 and 2 pots allow me to mix, while the front serves as a master fader.

-gb-