Grainy images on a PDW f350 at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
Register FAQ Today's Posts Buyer's Guides

Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
Sony PDW-F800, PDW-700, PDW-850, PXW-X500 (XDCAM HD) and PMW-400, PMW-320 (XDCAM EX).

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 7th, 2010, 06:46 AM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 7
Grainy images on a PDW f350

Hi all,

Does anyone have any idea how to eliminate the graininess in the dark areas in footage shot on an f350?

Even when I am shooting at 35mb/sec (HQ mode) and 0db gain, the bright areas of the pictures look great but there appears to be grain in the darker areas as if the gain is turned on. The grain is not just limited to the black areas, it seems as if it gets increasingly noticeable as the darkness of the area increases.

I'm currently running the latest firmware which, I think, has reduced it a little but not eliminated it completely.

Am I asking too much of my f350??
Leonard Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7th, 2010, 11:35 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium
Posts: 963
Which is your 'detail' setting? When it's too high, it tends to emphasise noise.
Luc De Wandel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7th, 2010, 12:10 PM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,130
Some of the Gammas are noisier than others too. There is a noise reduction setting that was introduced via firmware that helps a lot.
It has to be said though that it is a reasonably noisy camera.
Steve
Steve Phillipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7th, 2010, 12:40 PM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,409
I use the f350 all the time and there is a lot of noise in this camera under low light in the blacks. You could try lowering your blacks and gamma to -3 I think. What Cine setting are you using?

The F350 can produce great images but it's very noisy in the blacks I have noticed.

Cheers
Simon Denny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2010, 06:51 AM   #5
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 7
Thanks for the replies.

I have decreased the detail and the blacks, etc to -3 and I am using the standard gamma. My first impressions are that it has reduced noise a little but it is still quite noticeable.

As far as I am aware I am running the latest firmware (1.99) but I was unable to locate the noise reduction feature in the menus. Any clue to where I might find it?
Leonard Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2010, 07:35 AM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,130
Can't remember where it is in the menus but it's discussed in this thread http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...irmware-4.html
Steve Phillipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2010, 10:40 AM   #7
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 7
I think I found the piece of the thread that listed the Low Noise feature:

Select "LOW NOISE MODE" on the "CAM CONFIG" page of the "MAINTENANCE"
menu.

However, when I access the appropriate page, the Low Noise option is just not there.

Perhaps I don't have the latest firmware as I believe?

Checking the camera it reads:

AT: 1.54

Package: 1.99

Someone at Sony sent me the 'Package' part about a week ago. I have no idea where to get the 'AT' part.
Leonard Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2010, 01:16 AM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,409
Hi Leonard,
How are you going with the PDWf350 and the low noise issue?

Cheers
Simon Denny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 10th, 2010, 05:19 AM   #9
New Boot
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Portsmouth, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 7
Hi there Simon,

As I said in my last post, I'm not 100% certain that I have actually installed the latest firmware fully as the Low Noise Mode option does not appear in the menu.

I did a shoot yesterday and it appears that the dark areas of the picture are only slightly less noisy than before. This is more likely due to the changes to the settings that I made rather than updates to the firmware.

When I upgraded the firmware it appears that I only changed the 'Package' part. The 'AT' part is still exactly the same. Reading through other posts I'm guessing that the 'AT' part is updated during the very first step of the process and the 'Package' upgrade happens when you hold the menu knob down for 10 seconds or so and select the version you want to upgrade to.

During this first part when I did my upgrade the camera said that it couldn't find the file and then an alarm sounded so I switched it off.

I think it would help if I could locate both parts of the 1.99 firmware.

Leonard
Leonard Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2010, 12:12 AM   #10
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,409
Ok, you need to instal the latest firmware to get the low noise filter, this will help and you will see the difference. I would not go pass 6db of gain on the PDWf350 and even at 6db noise is coming in. I own both the EX1 and the f350 and the EX1 wins hands down for low noise. Other than that the f350 is a great camera in my opinion and produces a good looking image. Hey what lens have you on the thing?

Cheers
Simon Denny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2010, 05:24 AM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Germany
Posts: 565
denoiser (set it to "1" only) takes a bit of detail away - but its an option for shooting in low light.

You could also set Gain to -3 , but then the camera is less light sensitive ;-(

Uli
Uli Mors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2010, 03:44 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium
Posts: 963
I have the AT firmware numbered 1.60 and the noise reduction option is there allright. So you don't have to upgrade is you have 1.60 for A.T. My 'package' is 1.93, but I didn't upgrade to 1.99, because the only differences are these, according to the Sony site :

"ERROR 91-215 no longer appears and the unit no longer hangs under the following conditions:
• The unit is powered ON using a disc formatted with PDW-U1 and a PC.
• An operation (such as disc ejection, disc formatting, standby OFF, recording stop, or clip deletion) is performed 4 hours and 40 minutes after power-ON."

As I have no PC and as my batteries don't last 4 hours, the upgrade is of no use to me.

I did some tests, and as Uli points out, there is a slight reduction in sharpness if you use 'noise reduction 1'. There is also some loss of detail in the blacks. 'Noise reduction 2 does not only cause a further decrease in sharpness, but is also lowers the contrast dramatically and changes your white balance. Especially that last effect is weird, it shouldn't happen. So I would avoid setting '2' in any case, and use setting 1 only when necessary.
Luc De Wandel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2010, 04:37 AM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 201
unfortunately, Sony don't keep their history intact when a new version comes out

so with 1.99 you won't see the changes that were made in 1.98 or 1.95
__________________
Anton Strauss
www.videoproductions.com.au
Anton Strauss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2010, 04:46 AM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,130
There is an archive of old firmware somewhere on the web as I got something from it just 2 months back but I can't find it anywhere now.
Steve
Steve Phillipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2010, 05:52 AM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium
Posts: 963
Thanks for pointing that out, Anton. I wasn't even aware that there were intermediate updates between 1.93 and 1.99
Do you have any idea what updates 1.95 and 1.98 improved or corrected?

thanks
Luc
Luc De Wandel is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts


 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:38 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network