Sony Z7 better image than PDW-F350 ??? at DVinfo.net

Luc De Wandel · November 24th, 2010, 07:48 AM

I did a comparative test between my Sony Z7 and my PDW-F350. Both were connected to a Sony OLED monitor, which has an HD-SDI input as well as HDMI, so I could switch easily from one camera image to the other. Both camera's were on a gain of +12 db as I wanted to find out how well (or badly) both perform at low light levels. To my surprise, the image of the Z7 looked sharper and especially more flicker-free than that of the PDW-F350. Both have 1440 x 1080 resolution, but the Z7 has 1/3 chips and the PDW has 1/2 inch sensor. So I expected the bigger chips to perform better.

Z7 is CMOS and PDW is CCD. Could this be the reason for the strange findings? Or am I missing something?

Doug Jensen · November 24th, 2010, 09:09 AM

Deleted.
Changed my mind.

Uli Mors · November 24th, 2010, 11:22 PM

Thats not too surprising (for me):
The Z5/Z7 is a newer development , the F330 is older. So I guess there is more (oder more modern) DSP Power helping the picture.

LowLight is one thing, resolution another.

The Z7 generates its 1440x1080 by pixelshifting. The RGB resolution of its CCDs is SMALLER (I think to remember 960x1080 or so).
Thats no problem as long lowlight is mixed light. In case the light color changes to very red (Candles, Concert in red light) all Sony HDV handhelds will reproduce smaller resolution, while the pdw330 (in its sisters) keep up the full 1440 (1440x1080 RGB CCD).

In Lowlight it could be an alternative to go only to +6 and use the cinegammas 1 or 3.

Thats why I would still prefer the PDW for concert shots etc. over the z7 (i own one myself).

Uli

Alister Chapman · November 25th, 2010, 01:55 PM

I would want to do any serious subjective tests like that on a much larger, full resolution monitor before coming to any firm conclusions.

Luc De Wandel · November 25th, 2010, 04:39 PM

I'm planning to do that on a 42 inch full-HD monitor, Alister, but the difference was already remarkable on the Sony OLED (which has a 960x540 resolution for a 7,4 inch screen), so that struck me as odd. But as Uli points out, the Z7 might benefit of more recent and thus more sophisticated digital signal processing.

Uli Mors · November 25th, 2010, 09:03 PM

one more:

Yesterday I played with my PDW330 + PDW700 in different setups. With both of them I am producing a TV show where we visit wellness hotels and high sophisticated **** Restaurants.
there would be no need to shoot it in HD, but for the hotel´s websites its a nice plus they pay for.

To gain max time out of the disk I often shoot in 25mbit mode - even with the PDW700. Pic quality (ZA12x4.5) is superb, but you can clearly see 25mbit "ants" when there is much detail or movement.

The 35mbit modes (1440x1080, 420HQ mode in PDW700 or HQ Mode in PDW330) is clearly better than HDV compression at 25. The PDW330 needs more light indeed. With a bit more light and the right lens and NOT TOO MUCH raised DETAIL LEVEL (that looks ugly when stretched to 1920) the PDW330 pics can look fantastic - even with its 1440 pix.

ULi

Luc De Wandel · December 1st, 2010, 05:10 AM

Hi Uli, I'm planning to do some more testing when I get back from holiday. I guess that my detail setting on the PDW-F350 may be a little too high (8). But it was especially the quietness of the Z7-image that surprised me, in comparison to the PDW-F350's image, shot on 35 mbt.

I'll keep you posted
greetings from Gran Canaria.

November 24th, 2010, 07:48 AM	#1
Luc De Wandel Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium Posts: 963	Sony Z7 better image than PDW-F350 ??? I did a comparative test between my Sony Z7 and my PDW-F350. Both were connected to a Sony OLED monitor, which has an HD-SDI input as well as HDMI, so I could switch easily from one camera image to the other. Both camera's were on a gain of +12 db as I wanted to find out how well (or badly) both perform at low light levels. To my surprise, the image of the Z7 looked sharper and especially more flicker-free than that of the PDW-F350. Both have 1440 x 1080 resolution, but the Z7 has 1/3 chips and the PDW has 1/2 inch sensor. So I expected the bigger chips to perform better. Z7 is CMOS and PDW is CCD. Could this be the reason for the strange findings? Or am I missing something?

November 24th, 2010, 09:09 AM	#2
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,442	Deleted. Changed my mind. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

November 25th, 2010, 01:55 PM	#4
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	I would want to do any serious subjective tests like that on a much larger, full resolution monitor before coming to any firm conclusions. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

November 24th, 2010, 11:22 PM	#3
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	Thats not too surprising (for me): The Z5/Z7 is a newer development , the F330 is older. So I guess there is more (oder more modern) DSP Power helping the picture. LowLight is one thing, resolution another. The Z7 generates its 1440x1080 by pixelshifting. The RGB resolution of its CCDs is SMALLER (I think to remember 960x1080 or so). Thats no problem as long lowlight is mixed light. In case the light color changes to very red (Candles, Concert in red light) all Sony HDV handhelds will reproduce smaller resolution, while the pdw330 (in its sisters) keep up the full 1440 (1440x1080 RGB CCD). In Lowlight it could be an alternative to go only to +6 and use the cinegammas 1 or 3. Thats why I would still prefer the PDW for concert shots etc. over the z7 (i own one myself). Uli

November 25th, 2010, 04:39 PM	#5
Luc De Wandel Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium Posts: 963	I'm planning to do that on a 42 inch full-HD monitor, Alister, but the difference was already remarkable on the Sony OLED (which has a 960x540 resolution for a 7,4 inch screen), so that struck me as odd. But as Uli points out, the Z7 might benefit of more recent and thus more sophisticated digital signal processing.

November 25th, 2010, 09:03 PM	#6
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	one more: Yesterday I played with my PDW330 + PDW700 in different setups. With both of them I am producing a TV show where we visit wellness hotels and high sophisticated **** Restaurants. there would be no need to shoot it in HD, but for the hotel´s websites its a nice plus they pay for. To gain max time out of the disk I often shoot in 25mbit mode - even with the PDW700. Pic quality (ZA12x4.5) is superb, but you can clearly see 25mbit "ants" when there is much detail or movement. The 35mbit modes (1440x1080, 420HQ mode in PDW700 or HQ Mode in PDW330) is clearly better than HDV compression at 25. The PDW330 needs more light indeed. With a bit more light and the right lens and NOT TOO MUCH raised DETAIL LEVEL (that looks ugly when stretched to 1920) the PDW330 pics can look fantastic - even with its 1440 pix. ULi

December 1st, 2010, 05:10 AM	#7
Luc De Wandel Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium Posts: 963	Hi Uli, I'm planning to do some more testing when I get back from holiday. I guess that my detail setting on the PDW-F350 may be a little too high (8). But it was especially the quietness of the Z7-image that surprised me, in comparison to the PDW-F350's image, shot on 35 mbt. I'll keep you posted greetings from Gran Canaria.