PMW-500 50 Mbs 4:2:2 is a PMW-EX5 50 Mbs 4:2:2 The Next Step.

[Paul Cronin]

I agree with Steve the client most debility cares what kit you use. Most of my high-end clients specify the kit.

Steve it would be great to have the camera modular but we are talking about manufactures, we have to remember they are not in it to give us the best product, they are in it to make money period. At least Red has the idea now, if they every really make it happen for a full line or if it is just marketing hype we will have to see.

[Daniel Goyette]

One important factor to me in addition of having 50 Mbs 4:2:2 HandHeld XDCAM EX is the fact an HandHeld can be use HandHeld or Shoulder-Mount with some attach on done.

A Shoulder-Mount cant do that so the freedom of an HandHeld camcorder is important but it should not mean lower picture quality when technology permit to reach same or so close quality.

I have found here a very informative groups of point of view so it should indicate that i am not alone of finding artificial limitation in HandHeld not acceptable in users point of view.

[Paul Cronin]

Daniel you might want to at least check out the Canon. I did get a chance to play with one and the picture is very nice. Now the chip size is a factor so for me to get rid of my EX and Nano for a Canon would not happen. I still think for hand held the EX/Nano is the best combination on the market to get 50Mb/s and up with 422.

[Steve Phillipps]

Paul, are you tempted by the Ki Pro Mini?
Steve

[Paul Cronin]

Steve, after our last conversation I checked it out and the Ki Pro Mini looks very nice. If I did not have a Nano I would test one out. But to sell the Nano and go with the Ki Pro Mini just does not make sense to me.

What are your thoughts? Do you own a Nano or a Ki Pro Mini?

[Steve Phillipps]

I don't have either and I think both look good, and get the feeling that it'll little workflow or compatibility things which sway people in one direction or the other.
Steve

[Paul Cronin]

Agree workflow should be considered. I have been happy with XDCAM HD 50Mb/s 422 but then again if I am mixing bit rates and formats I always use Prores HQ.

I am sure I will take a good look at the Ki Pro when it comes out.

[Steve Kalle]

Nano vs Aja: check out my feature and price comparison in the Nano vs Mini thread. Essentially, the XDCAM 50Mb is equivalent in IQ to the Pro Res 422 @ 220Mb - this is an educated guess based on how well the XDCAM 35Mb does against Pro Res in Mike Marriage's test. However, due to Pro Res using more than 4 times the storage space, the Aja is actually more expensive when adding in CF cards with equal recording times in both.

And according to Alister and others much smarter than me, recording 10bit with the EX1/3 doesn't really add anything to picture IQ due to how much noise these cams have.

Plus, the 50Mb XDCAM can be backed up to optical disk and takes up far less space. Furthermore, the Aja tops out at 220Mb whereas the Nano's 100Mb L-GOP is higher quality than anything from the Aja and you can keep going higher with the Nano.

And since the Aja does not support hot-swap, the Pro Res HQ @ 220Mb/s allows much less continuous recording than the Nano.

[Steve Phillipps]

Not sure I agree with all of that Steve, but your opinions are as valid as mine.
I know tests on ProRes HQ have been done that show it's virtually indistinguishable from uncompressed, so that must make it ahead of XDCam 50 mb/s surely? Also it's an I frame and more robust through post, this is why a lot of long GOP stuff is transcoded to ProRes - and going from XDCam to ProRes is going to lose some quality in the transcode I assume. This is why some folks prefer the direct ProRes route from the Ki.
It's a tough call and I've said before I think both are more than up to virtually any broadcast use most people could have.
Also, price-wise, interestingly the best prices I have been given in the UK are Nano £1,995 and Ki Pro Mini £1,565, not much in it really.
Steve

[Paul Cronin]

Maybe we should move this to a different thread?

Steve K, I agree XDCAM Long GOP at 100Mb/s 422 is about the same as the I-Frame 220Mb/s on the Nano. We did days of testing this prior to shoots last year. But is the Ki Pro the same codec?

Alister point is interesting it would be great to see test where this has been proven. I also agree with Steve P it really does not matter at this level. Both of these units fit the highest broadcast requirements, so it really comes down to the editors workflow.

For me I am very happy with my Nano it has never failed me in some tough conditions. Besides CD support is first class and I have really enjoyed all my contact with Dan and Mike. But that should never stop us from keeping our eyes open to new product.

[Mark David Williams]

Does anyone know when the Ki Pro mini will become available in the UK?

Mark

[Daniel Goyette]

After having look at all your options this is what i think about it but it is only my opinion guys :

1- Best solution Sony see the light and we get an XDCAM EX HandHeld 50 Mbs / 4:2:2.

2- Accept Canon as an alternative to Sony for 50 Mbs / 4:2:2 (But Sony for me will be better).

3-Capitulate and add an external device to get 50 Mbs / 4:2:2 to my actual Sony PMW-EX1.

Still dream of a XDCAM EX HandHeld from Sony 1/2 Inch CCD or CMOS 50 Mbs 4:2:2.

Call this an Hate and Love relationship from Me with Sony ....

[Peter Moretti]

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

The SR media is called SR-Memory. I can't remember the figures but it's capable of something like 2.5Gb/s. Apparently it won't be all that much more than SxS as it uses a clever controller that allows lower cost memory chips to be used. ...

5Gb/s & 1TB storage.