Gamma Curves - PDW-F800 at DVinfo.net

Steve Shaw · September 10th, 2009, 09:55 AM

I've just discovered that the new Sony PDW-F800 XDcam is the first of the XDcam range to allow for CineAlta User Gamma Curves - which enables the Light Illusion pre-set Gamma Curves to be used.

I've been asked for curves for XDcam cameras a lot, so this is rather good news, although it would be nice if the full XDcam range could use curves. Got to start somewhere I guess...

The LI Gamma Curves have become something of a standard in f800/f23/f35/HDC-1000/1500 cameras, so hopefully they will be of use for the PDW-F800.

For information on the Light Illusion curves please see:
Light Illusion - CVP Gamma Curves

I obviously have a vested interest in these curves, but 'can I load your curves into my XDcam' is probably the most common question I get asked, so hopefully this info will be of interest to some of you..

If anyone has questions I'm always happy to answer as best as I can.

Steve

Steve Shaw
Light Illusion
steve@lightillusion.com
+44 7765 400 908
Light Illusion - Digital Film, Digital Intermediate, Digital Cinematography
Skype: shaw.clan
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Art & Science of Digital Imaging
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Greg Boston · September 13th, 2009, 12:43 AM

This is true about user gamma curves. However, it should be noted that you can't create them in the camera. They have to be created using software on a PC, transferred to a Memory Stick, then loaded to camera by inserting said Memory Stick.

-gb-

Steve Shaw · September 25th, 2009, 06:44 AM

Hi Greg,

Yep, that's true - but the benefits of a good gamma curve are well worth the installation process, and the results really do move the camera into a different league with respect to the image captured.

Some curves are ideal for direct image use, while others require post-production to get the most from them.

NFL Films have recently moved over to digital capture from film (hybrid at the moment), and the results they are getting with the gamma curves have been very impressive.

Steve

Greg Boston · September 25th, 2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Shaw

NFL Films have recently moved over to digital capture from film (hybrid at the moment), and the results they are getting with the gamma curves have been very impressive.

Thought I would never live long enough to see that! They have always kind of stuck out on the sidelines, being the only film cameras in a sea of video cameras.

And like you said, the process of moving the curves to the camera is fairly painless for the benefit you get out of it.

-gb-

P.S. This is one of about 5 unique features that the 800 has that the 700 doesn't (and it can't be added via option).

Tim Bradley · September 26th, 2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

This is one of about 5 unique features that the 800 has that the 700 doesn't (and it can't be added via option).

Hi Greg, can you tell me what the other four or so unique features the 800 will have that the 700 never can have?

Thanks !!

Cheers, Tim

Alister Chapman · September 27th, 2009, 02:28 AM

The F800's unique features are focus assist, image invert (for 35mm adapters), Viewfinder markers on the HDSDi output, over crank and user gamma curves.

It also has SD and 24P as standard which are available as options on the 700.

Doug Jensen · September 27th, 2009, 03:47 PM

The F800 also has an optical CC filter wheel in addition to the ND filter wheel.
On the 700, CC is electronic.

Alister Chapman · September 28th, 2009, 12:36 AM

Doh! New there was another but couldn't remember what it was. Thanks Doug.

Steve Shaw · October 14th, 2009, 08:40 PM

Marc Windon - DoP, Australia (www.marcwindon.com) has been one of the first PWD-f800 users to work with the LI Gamma Curves. You might be interested in his initial response:

"Have only been running tests at this stage, but have a 3 day shoot this week. The dynamic range is incredible!"

Steve

Greg Boston · October 15th, 2009, 11:15 AM

Another thing about the 800 vs. the 700 is that the detail level is set by factory default to be a bit softer on the 800. The 700 can be set up to match or vice versa, but they are not set up to produce identical detail levels out of the box.

-gb-

Thierry Humeau · October 18th, 2009, 11:16 AM

Interesting, I was not aware of this but I definitely noticed this on the F800 when comparing to the 700. I used to tune the 700 detail down to -15 or -20 but I am keeping the F800 at 0. On the 700, Sony recommended to tune the detail down to -20 to match a stock F900.

Thierry.

Paul Cronin · March 26th, 2010, 01:13 PM

Steve I just sent you an email on custom Gamma Curves for the F800.

Uli Mors · March 29th, 2010, 03:51 AM

When you compare some pic parameters like detail, the menu can produce an internal offset (via "STORE PRESET" in the file menus)

If you want 100% compare numbers, set the cam to "absolute values" for a while or get an orientation on the bar in the upper line - it shows the absolute position (very rough...) of the selected parameter - even if its offset.

The idea of the Preset is to pre-set some settings and offer "0" balanced (offset) values to the camera user. therefore its difficult to compare different 700s or 800s to each other without knowing the ABSOLUTE , not relative values...

A try? Set detail on -20 in your 700, then STORE PRESET, now the value is "0" , but the setting is there.

uli

September 10th, 2009, 09:55 AM	#1
Steve Shaw Tourist Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Throcking, UK Posts: 4	Gamma Curves - PDW-F800 I've just discovered that the new Sony PDW-F800 XDcam is the first of the XDcam range to allow for CineAlta User Gamma Curves - which enables the Light Illusion pre-set Gamma Curves to be used. I've been asked for curves for XDcam cameras a lot, so this is rather good news, although it would be nice if the full XDcam range could use curves. Got to start somewhere I guess... The LI Gamma Curves have become something of a standard in f800/f23/f35/HDC-1000/1500 cameras, so hopefully they will be of use for the PDW-F800. For information on the Light Illusion curves please see: Light Illusion - CVP Gamma Curves I obviously have a vested interest in these curves, but 'can I load your curves into my XDcam' is probably the most common question I get asked, so hopefully this info will be of interest to some of you.. If anyone has questions I'm always happy to answer as best as I can. Steve Steve Shaw Light Illusion steve@lightillusion.com +44 7765 400 908 Light Illusion - Digital Film, Digital Intermediate, Digital Cinematography Skype: shaw.clan ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The Art & Science of Digital Imaging ++++++++++++++++++++++++++

September 27th, 2009, 02:28 AM	#6
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	The F800's unique features are focus assist, image invert (for 35mm adapters), Viewfinder markers on the HDSDi output, over crank and user gamma curves. It also has SD and 24P as standard which are available as options on the 700. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 27th, 2009, 03:47 PM	#7
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,450	The F800 also has an optical CC filter wheel in addition to the ND filter wheel. On the 700, CC is electronic. __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

September 28th, 2009, 12:36 AM	#8
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Doh! New there was another but couldn't remember what it was. Thanks Doug. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

October 18th, 2009, 11:16 AM	#11
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	Interesting, I was not aware of this but I definitely noticed this on the F800 when comparing to the 700. I used to tune the 700 detail down to -15 or -20 but I am keeping the F800 at 0. On the 700, Sony recommended to tune the detail down to -20 to match a stock F900. Thierry. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com

September 13th, 2009, 12:43 AM	#2
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	This is true about user gamma curves. However, it should be noted that you can't create them in the camera. They have to be created using software on a PC, transferred to a Memory Stick, then loaded to camera by inserting said Memory Stick. -gb-

September 25th, 2009, 06:44 AM	#3
Steve Shaw Tourist Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Throcking, UK Posts: 4	Hi Greg, Yep, that's true - but the benefits of a good gamma curve are well worth the installation process, and the results really do move the camera into a different league with respect to the image captured. Some curves are ideal for direct image use, while others require post-production to get the most from them. NFL Films have recently moved over to digital capture from film (hybrid at the moment), and the results they are getting with the gamma curves have been very impressive. Steve

October 14th, 2009, 08:40 PM	#9
Steve Shaw Tourist Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Throcking, UK Posts: 4	Marc Windon - DoP, Australia (www.marcwindon.com) has been one of the first PWD-f800 users to work with the LI Gamma Curves. You might be interested in his initial response: "Have only been running tests at this stage, but have a 3 day shoot this week. The dynamic range is incredible!" Steve

October 15th, 2009, 11:15 AM	#10
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Another thing about the 800 vs. the 700 is that the detail level is set by factory default to be a bit softer on the 800. The 700 can be set up to match or vice versa, but they are not set up to produce identical detail levels out of the box. -gb-

March 26th, 2010, 01:13 PM	#12
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	Steve I just sent you an email on custom Gamma Curves for the F800. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com

March 29th, 2010, 03:51 AM	#13
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	When you compare some pic parameters like detail, the menu can produce an internal offset (via "STORE PRESET" in the file menus) If you want 100% compare numbers, set the cam to "absolute values" for a while or get an orientation on the bar in the upper line - it shows the absolute position (very rough...) of the selected parameter - even if its offset. The idea of the Preset is to pre-set some settings and offer "0" balanced (offset) values to the camera user. therefore its difficult to compare different 700s or 800s to each other without knowing the ABSOLUTE , not relative values... A try? Set detail on -20 in your 700, then STORE PRESET, now the value is "0" , but the setting is there. uli