F800 Events At AbelCineTech July 7th & 9th

[Andy Shipsides]

I'd like to invite you all to our XDCAM F800 Events in our New York and Burbank offices. We are excited to be showing off this new camera, and I'd love to see some DVinfo members there. Come to learn about the camera, get your hands on it, and ask any questions you want. Oh and Sony is raffling off a digital still camera too. Here is the info for both locations, make sure to RSVP:

Abel Cine Tech is proud to present an Introduction to Sony F800 Camcorder. Join us for a first look at the latest professional XDCAM optical disc camera and learn how it takes the XDCAM format to the next level.

Topics for the day will include:

* Camera Features
* Camera Comparison: Sony F900 / 700 / F800
* Decks and Field Support
* Screening of F800 Footage
* XDCAM Workflow & Archival Techniques

Burbank - July 7th, 2009

Abel Cine Tech
801 South Main St
Burbank, CA 91508
(818) 972-9078

RSVP: Nora Larsen - rsvp@abelcine.com

11am – 1pm, followed by Q&A
A light lunch will be served
admission is free, but space is limited


New York - July 9, 2009

Abel Cine Tech
609 Greenwich St
New York, NY 10014
212-462-0100

RSVP: Claire Orpeza - rsvp@abelcine.com

10am – 12pm, followed by Q&A
A light lunch will be served.
admission is free, but space is limited

[Steve Phillipps]

What about the topic of getting a trade-in on your 700 if you'd have waited had you know the 800 was on the horizon? RED does it with a full money-back trade-in against their new camera, why can't Sony? I still think it's a disgrace and it's put me right off Sony, looking into getting a Varicam instead.
Steve

[Bill Long]

Steve, when the PDW-700 was introduced at NAB in 2008 it was discussed as a news camera not a production camera.They also said it would not have 23.98. After feed back from the dealer networks Sony decided to have the option of 23.98. Sony listened to their
customers. Sony also said at NAB 2008 that the production camera would be introduced at a later date.

We have sold over 30 PDW-700 cameras and every customer that purchased these cameras were informed and they asked "when is the production camera going to be released". I understand your position! Sony did not hide the fact that a production camera
was to be released. All of the Sony dealers were advised. My advice is to talk to your local dealer and have them call Sony and support your position. XDCAM is important to Sony world wide and I am sure that your Local Dealer and Sony will work with you to resolve your issue.

[Steve Phillipps]

Thanks Bill, I have mentioned it to my dealer, but will push it a bit more. It's actually the overcranking I need. I bought the 700 knowing that the 720/60P upgrade was on the way, but when it arrived it had a few issues. Firstly, you can't mix 720 and 1080 on same disc, secondly the quality doesn't look that hot, and thirdly the process to conform it to 25P for slomo effect is quite cumbersome due to the fact that it's long GOP rather than I Frame.
Steve

[Alister Chapman]

Firmware version 1.5 should address at least one of your issues. I know that isn't a big help.

[Steve Phillipps]

What does that do then?
Steve

[Bill Long]

It means you will be able to mix 720 and 1080 on the same disc as long as the frame rate is the same in each mode.

[Simon Wyndham]

What about the topic of getting a trade-in on your 700 if you'd have waited had you know the 800 was on the horizon?

Steve, as I have said before, I did point out when the 700 was released that XDCAM cameras were always released in two's and to expect and all singing all dancing version. And as Bill pointed out Sony never pretended otherwise that the 700 was for ENG operation. The feature set was as it was, and no extra VFR features were promised. Only rumour mongered.

It was a surprise to me when you said that the RSPB were interested in the 700, since Mark had told me that any camera they went for needed to have decent overcranking ability. I also mentioned then that there was likely to be a sister model to the 700 back then too.

[Steve Phillipps]

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

It was a surprise to me when you said that the RSPB were interested in the 700, since Mark had told me that any camera they went for needed to have decent overcranking ability. I also mentioned then that there was likely to be a sister model to the 700 back then too.

It's because the 700 could do 720/60P which would be OK apart from the problems I outlined.
As for the cameras being released in twos, that would have been fine - if they'd been released together and we could choose then fine, but I'm not the only one who's miffed about this. I know that no VFR were promised, that's fine, but they should have told us that another model that would have VFR was on the cards and so to hang on if that was what we needed - many people wouldn't have as they don't need it.

Steve

[Simon Wyndham]

but they should have told us that another model that would have VFR was on the cards and so to hang on if that was what we needed

No manufacturer is ever going to do that. If Apple did that nobody would ever buy any of their computers because they'd always be waiting for the next one.

However, Sony did do this in as much as the line that was taken was "if you want VFR the 700 isn't for you". Sony said right from the beginning that the 700 was not a cinematography camera. The 700 never had VFR yet you bought it anyway. Surely the best thing to do would have been to think "Well, the 700 doesn't have VFR so I'll wait and see what Panasonic do, or wait to see if Sony responds."

As I said, I'd commented for a long time that i expected something like the 800, and you should know by now that my 'guesses' about that type of thing are not often wild stabs in the dark even if nobody tells me that about that sort of thing directly. But hey ho...

[Steve Phillipps]

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

Surely the best thing to do would have been to think "Well, the 700 doesn't have VFR so I'll wait and see what Panasonic do, or wait to see if Sony responds."

..

As to that, I did make the right decision as fortunately I've already had enough hires from the 700 to pay for any loss I'd make in trading it, but that's not the point.
Steve

[Simon Wyndham]

but that's not the point.

The point is that there isn't any point. When the 700 was released it was at a time when the XDCAM development area was totally and utterly flat out. They also wanted to see the effect the 700 would have on the HDCAM line too.

Further the 800 isn't a 700 replacement, there is quite a price difference. And if your 700 is working for you and has made its money back, what's the issue here? If your 700 has made you a profit that you wouldn't have had if you didn't own it then you haven't really made a loss on it have you? If you knew that the 800 was coming then you would have had to have waited a year anyway, potentially not having the clients that you gained by having the 700 as early as you did.

Look, I could be annoyed at Apple for not telling me that there would be an 8 core Mac Pro months after I got a quad core. But I'm not. That's just the way the commercial world works I'm afraid. You are literally complaining that Sony didn't do what no other manufacturer of any goods anywhere would ever do either.

[Steve Phillipps]

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

. And if your 700 is working for you and has made its money back, what's the issue here? If your 700 has made you a profit that you wouldn't have had if you didn't own it then you haven't really made a loss on it have you? .

Maybe some won't have been as lucky as me and made enough on it. Also I did have a camera already that I could have hired out before the 700, I was just ready to upgrade and the 700 seemed to be the way to go - full 1080 camera with 720 too for slomo, there was nothing else out there that had that. BUT if I'd known that the 800 was on the way I'd have waited for that. I had no knowledge of it at all about the 800 until the press release, and after that my dealer (Visual Impact) still had never heard of it and had had no word from Sony at all! So excuse me for being in the dark about it too!
Mark from the RSPB was waiting on me to do 720 tests on the 700, but Sony took so bloody long getting the firmware updates done that they jumped for an HPX2700 before I had the chance!
Steve

[Simon Wyndham]

Maybe some won't have been as lucky as me and made enough on it.

In that case having an 800 wouldn't have changed things. I doubt they would have suddenly had loads of jobs coming in just because of the VFR feature.

that my dealer (Visual Impact) still had never heard of it and had had no word from Sony at all! So excuse me for being in the dark about it too!

Just the way it is. It was inevitable and easy to predict given how past XDCAM camcorders were released and feature sets that they offered between them. Also I long since learn't that when someone from Sony tells me "no way will that happen" that it usually will happen within 12 months! ;-)

[Andy Shipsides]

The 700 was intended to be an ENG camera. The lack of Color Correction filters alone was evidence of that. The F800 is a different animal, yes they share many of the same features and you can upgrade your 700 to be very similar, but it is built to appeal to a production market. Panasonic did a similar this with the HPX2000 and HPX2700. They are just built for different purposes.

Our show is to get the word out that both of these cameras are great tools. In the US they have sold well to the news networks, but we need to get them in the hands of freelancers and other production companies. It seems like those of you in the UK have really embraced the 700. We hope to get the same response in the US with the F800. I can see how the release of this camera so soon after the 700 can upset some people, but the adoption of the XDCAM format by more companies can only increase the number of jobs you 700 owners will get.