PDW-700 with 25p mixing with F900R/23.98p in Final Cut 6 at DVinfo.net

James Venturi · January 1st, 2009, 08:50 AM

I have shot hundreds of hours on the F900 at 23.98p and I have only about 40 hours of shooting left.

My cinematographer is thinking of buying the PDW-700 and I am interested in using it because it sounds like the quality is better than the F900R with its improved sensor and 4:2:2 codec (also thinking of using the Nano with it for 100Mb quality).

So first, am I correct? Is the quality better in terms of low light and color from the F900.

Second, has anyone had experience mixing 25p footage with 23.98p footage in final cut? There is the menu item, "Conform 25p to 24p." Does this "work"? Is it as simple as mixing clips on the timeline and then rendering them later? Are there audio sync issues?

Thank you!

Jim

Steve Phillipps · January 4th, 2009, 08:47 AM

As far as the image from the 700 vs f900 goes I doubt that the 700 will be better, maybe on a par, but don't forget that the HDCam codec should be better than the XDCam one for anything moving or with lots of detail. I've found that the 750 HDCam looks a bit richer than the pdw700, slightly noisier though, but I'd probably give the 750 the overall slight edge. Alister Chapman did a shoot with the 700 and 790 and preferred the 790 too (slightly).http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdca...one-shoot.html
Steve

Alister Chapman · January 4th, 2009, 10:02 AM

I think the 790 looked a bit richer, but we hadn't really played with the picture profiles on the 700. I've done a fair bit of 700 work since and played with the PP and I can get a very rich looking image out of the 700. If you were on a multipart shoot and some was shot with a 900 and some with a 700 and they were both set up to look the same I doubt very much that anyone would be able to tell which was which. Don't forget the 700 has the same sensors as the F23, so it does and should look good. If anything I prefer first generation 50Mbps XDCAM over HDCAM, you can see the extra resolution. If your careful in post the XDCAM should hold up fine.

James Venturi · January 5th, 2009, 03:43 PM

Do either of you have a sense of the practical issues associated with mixing these to framerates in final cut?

Steve Phillipps · January 6th, 2009, 01:59 AM

Sorry James, I don't do editing so have no clue. Maybe you could post the question on the editing forum? Maybe some of the editors don't pay us a visit way down here!
Steve

Simon Wyndham · January 6th, 2009, 04:11 AM

In Final Cut you have an option to make it treat 25p footage as 24p. I have not tried it myself, but you could create a 25p as 24p sequence and then nest those sections into your 24p timeline. Though it is probably best to ask this question in the "Editing on the Mac" forum.

Quote:

Is it as simple as mixing clips on the timeline and then rendering them later?

You may have to nest sequences. But I do think that it treats the footage frame for frame, so your 25p footage will appear to play back 4% slower, which depending on the subject matter could either be extremely annoying to you or might not make much difference.

Alister Chapman · January 7th, 2009, 01:46 PM

I haven't used the feature in anger but it does slow down the 25P material so that it plays back smoothly at 24P. I see no reason why you can't just mix the 24P and 25P clips in the timeline.

Simon Wyndham · January 7th, 2009, 01:50 PM

Apparently it is destructive to the clip, so make a backup. But apparently what it does it to instantly change the clip to 24p and makes the audio pitch change automatically.

Alister Chapman · January 7th, 2009, 04:05 PM

I think it simply changes the clips header so that FCP thinks it is a 24FPS clip and then adds a pitch shift to the audio.

Simon Wyndham · January 7th, 2009, 04:54 PM

Here is the extract from the article

Quote:

Comments: It is important to export the standalone movie as indicated above and re-import it into a new sequence because FCP’s “Conform 25 to 24” command is destructive.

James Venturi · January 9th, 2009, 07:13 AM

Does anyone have a sense if the footage will look different at 23.98 vs. 25p (that is conformed or otherwise rendered)?

January 1st, 2009, 08:50 AM	#1
James Venturi Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 81	PDW-700 with 25p mixing with F900R/23.98p in Final Cut 6 I have shot hundreds of hours on the F900 at 23.98p and I have only about 40 hours of shooting left. My cinematographer is thinking of buying the PDW-700 and I am interested in using it because it sounds like the quality is better than the F900R with its improved sensor and 4:2:2 codec (also thinking of using the Nano with it for 100Mb quality). So first, am I correct? Is the quality better in terms of low light and color from the F900. Second, has anyone had experience mixing 25p footage with 23.98p footage in final cut? There is the menu item, "Conform 25p to 24p." Does this "work"? Is it as simple as mixing clips on the timeline and then rendering them later? Are there audio sync issues? Thank you! Jim

January 4th, 2009, 10:02 AM	#3
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	I think the 790 looked a bit richer, but we hadn't really played with the picture profiles on the 700. I've done a fair bit of 700 work since and played with the PP and I can get a very rich looking image out of the 700. If you were on a multipart shoot and some was shot with a 900 and some with a 700 and they were both set up to look the same I doubt very much that anyone would be able to tell which was which. Don't forget the 700 has the same sensors as the F23, so it does and should look good. If anything I prefer first generation 50Mbps XDCAM over HDCAM, you can see the extra resolution. If your careful in post the XDCAM should hold up fine. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

January 5th, 2009, 03:43 PM	#4
James Venturi Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 81	23.98p vs. 25p Do either of you have a sense of the practical issues associated with mixing these to framerates in final cut?

January 7th, 2009, 01:46 PM	#7
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	I haven't used the feature in anger but it does slow down the 25P material so that it plays back smoothly at 24P. I see no reason why you can't just mix the 24P and 25P clips in the timeline. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

January 7th, 2009, 04:05 PM	#9
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	I think it simply changes the clips header so that FCP thinks it is a 24FPS clip and then adds a pitch shift to the audio. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

January 4th, 2009, 08:47 AM	#2
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	As far as the image from the 700 vs f900 goes I doubt that the 700 will be better, maybe on a par, but don't forget that the HDCam codec should be better than the XDCam one for anything moving or with lots of detail. I've found that the 750 HDCam looks a bit richer than the pdw700, slightly noisier though, but I'd probably give the 750 the overall slight edge. Alister Chapman did a shoot with the 700 and 790 and preferred the 790 too (slightly).http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdca...one-shoot.html Steve

January 6th, 2009, 01:59 AM	#5
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Sorry James, I don't do editing so have no clue. Maybe you could post the question on the editing forum? Maybe some of the editors don't pay us a visit way down here! Steve

January 7th, 2009, 01:50 PM	#8
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Apparently it is destructive to the clip, so make a backup. But apparently what it does it to instantly change the clip to 24p and makes the audio pitch change automatically.

January 9th, 2009, 07:13 AM	#11
James Venturi Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 81	Does anyone have a sense if the footage will look different at 23.98 vs. 25p (that is conformed or otherwise rendered)?