Potential future of F3xx

Alister Chapman · January 14th, 2009, 02:02 AM

That's what I thought when I got my EX1. The EX1 would be the B camera to my F350. However once I saw how much better the EX1 looked, combined with the improved sensitivity the EX1 and then EX3 became my main cameras and the F350 now only comes out for a few clients that also have F350's.

The workflow isn't that terrible. Sure I prefer the optical disc workflow, but I'm also finding it very useful having all my material from various shoots on a hard drive ready for instant access. Of course I have a second drive as a backup plus DVD-DL's and Bluray discs of any footage I need to keep for 5 years or more.

I was working with a PDW-700 yesterday and I really missed the colour VF of my EX3.

David Heath · January 14th, 2009, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Bang Jensen

In my world I won’t trade for an EX camera. One of the main things is archiving of raw material. Yes you can set up system for archiving, but as it is for now, I can just put the XDCAM disk on the shelf…

Though now if you use SDHC plus an adaptor it's not much more expensive to treat the SDHC cards in the same way. The way prices are going, it won't be that long until SDHC is actually cheaper per GB than XDCAM discs.

Brian Bang Jensen · January 14th, 2009, 07:14 AM

You certainly give me something to think about!!

If the picture quality, the workflow and the VF, on the EX3 outclass the F 3xx, then it all comes down to the form factor!!

Then I have to ask the question, is that deciding factor?

If Sony updates the F 3xx, so that it will produce an equal or maybe superior picture to the EX, then I will certainly stay with the the 3xx. As it is for now, you got me thinking!

Regarding the storage on memory cards, I am not comfortable with that solution.
If I should use a card based camera, as a daily tool, I would use a BR solution, either as a standard BR disk or an U1 and a XDCAM disk.
I don’t trust HD drives and cards as a long term storage solution.

Alister Chapman · January 14th, 2009, 08:20 AM

Form factor is an issue, I agree. But the EX3 is very versatile and it is easy to add a shoulder pad and put larger batteries on the back to get a good balance. The EX3 advantage is that you can then make it smaller for when you need to travel.

I have some very old 64k compact flash cards and I can still read the data from them. I don't see any issue with using SD cards for long term storage.

Brian Bang Jensen · January 14th, 2009, 09:33 AM

Is there an adaptor for standard V-lock batteries??

Is there somewhere, where I can see a picture of an EX3, with attached shoulder mount?

I have a friend who owns a photo shop, on occasions costumers come in with faulty memory cards!
I can’t say why, but it happens… But I don’t trust them!

Ivan Snoeckx · January 14th, 2009, 09:44 AM

Hi Brian,

Yes, Bebob in Germany manufactures a V-Lock mount for the EX3. It's the COCO-EX3-V.

bebob COCO-EX3-V V-Mount Batterie-Adapter für Sony EX3

Simon Wyndham · January 14th, 2009, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Is there somewhere, where I can see a picture of an EX3, with attached shoulder mount?

Yes, you too can look like THIS!
http://www.videokit.co.uk/cgi-bin/st...gi?pid=652.htm

Just kidding.

The VF Gadgets tripod plate doubles as a shoulder mount. I'll be commenting on that add on in another thread.

I believe someone else on these forums had modded their CAvision shoulder brace for the EX3 and he was managing to balance it perfectly on the shoulder.

Quote:

on occasions costumers come in with faulty memory cards!

The same could be said for anything though. I've had tapes on MiniDV that were rubbish and full of dropouts. I've also had tapes go blank on me when I've left them in a (dry) cupboard for a few years.

Ivan Snoeckx · January 14th, 2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

Yes, you too can look like THIS!
http://www.videokit.co.uk/cgi-bin/st...gi?pid=652.htm

Just kidding.

That was one of my reasons to get a camera from the PDW-F3xx serie. My camera is not full HD and isn't as good as the EX1/EX3 in low light, but looking good with your camera also must be worth something. :-)

Brian Bang Jensen · January 14th, 2009, 11:33 AM

http://www.videokit.co.uk/cgi-bin/st...gi?pid=652.htm
Give him a starwars helmet and he can walk straight into the clone war…

Simon you are of course right, all kind of media have its fault, I am just more comfortable with a media that is not dependable of electric charge.

Maybe I will book a demo for an EX3. One thing for sure sometime in the near future I am in the market, for a new camera. Maybe Sony will come up with my favourite 3xx model or I will find the big wallet for a 700 or just settle with an EX3. For the moment I am not sure. A couple of bigger projects are coming up, let’s see how they develop.

Steve Phillipps · January 14th, 2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan Snoeckx

My camera is not full HD -)

Of course it full HD, so's a Varicam, they just get there in different ways. The F900 is only 1440x1080, not full HD?

Steve

Steve Phillipps · January 14th, 2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Bang Jensen

If the picture quality, the workflow and the VF, on the EX3 outclass the F 3xx, then it all comes down to the form factor!!
.

Don't forget the CMOS shutter, I'm yet to be convinced about it, but for others it seems to be a non-issue. I'd advise anyone going for an EX to try one first (ie shoot pics of the sort you normally shoot, get them to your post suite and look at them). But then that's sensible advice for any camera surely?
Steve

Craig Seeman · January 20th, 2009, 10:19 AM

I'd thought I'd address the archival issue and EX vs F3xx.

If you look at B&H you'll see 23GB XDCAM discs ranging from about $20-$27.
The Transcend Class 6 SDHC 16GB can be had from around $25-$30.
If that's an acceptable price range for archival, those Transcend cards are not much more expensive than XDCAM disc. If space is an issue (and it is in many offices/facilities) you can certainly pack a closet with many more SDHC cards than XDCAM discs (but labeling is a bear!).

If you need to hand the client the camera master, the client is going to have NO PROBLEM finding an SDHC reader and it'll cost a lot less than a U1. BTW at a 4X copy speed you'll be able to back up that SDHC pretty fast before you hand that master over.

If long record time is your issue, pack two Sandisk Ultra II 32GB cards in that EX and you've got just nigh 4 hours. That 64GB certainly is competitive in record time to 50GB XDCAM disc. The gotcha is the 32GB cards are still pricy and at $150 a pop, aren't quite the archival bargain the 50GB disc is. I think they're many months away from being price competitive with 50GB discs though. Do keep in mind that you can buy 2 Transcend SDHC 16GB cards and have them loaded in EX camera for about the same price or less than 50GB XDCAM disc.

If you do ENG/VNR super fast turnaround that 4x SDHC copy speed is nice and nearly 8x if you use SxS, is blazing. Of course XDCAM disc has proxy files but with SDHC/SxS you copy the "master" and you're done and working at full resolution.

As to shoulder mounts, keep in mind JVC is moving to XDCAM EX codec too. The HM-700 looks to be its 200/250 replacement. It's shoulder mount and it'll record to XDCAM EX .mov which is an additional speed up for Final Cut Pro users. I don't doubt Sony will have an "EX5" which will be shoulder mount (and maybe some other nice features).

By NAB, the only big advantage of the F3xx series may be the cost of 50GB discs. There may be other smaller advantages but the EX advantages are mounting. Future EX firmware updates may unlock additional features in that series. There's good reason why Sony doesn't let local dealers, let alone users get the firmware.

Greg Boston · January 24th, 2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

By NAB, the only big advantage of the F3xx series may be the cost of 50GB discs.

Just for a point of clarification, that would be the F3x5 series. The first generation cameras can't use the dual layer discs. Nor can they be upgraded to dual layer drives.

-gb-

Thierry Humeau · January 27th, 2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

Yes, you too can look like THIS!
PAG ORBITOR1

....

Frankly, that rig is a bit too much. I much rather use a F350 instead...

Thierry.

Alister Chapman · January 30th, 2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

It's shoulder mount and it'll record to XDCAM EX .mov which is an additional speed up for Final Cut Pro users.

Not sure it will make any difference for most users. The only time there would be an advantage is if you edit directly from the card. Most users will copy the files from the card to the computer prior to editing which is no different to the current workflow where the MP4's are re-wrapped as they are copied.

If you do choose .mov files you could end up with an issue if you need to then pass on your project to a PC user as PC's cannot read mpeg in a .mov wrapper.

January 14th, 2009, 02:02 AM	#46
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	That's what I thought when I got my EX1. The EX1 would be the B camera to my F350. However once I saw how much better the EX1 looked, combined with the improved sensitivity the EX1 and then EX3 became my main cameras and the F350 now only comes out for a few clients that also have F350's. The workflow isn't that terrible. Sure I prefer the optical disc workflow, but I'm also finding it very useful having all my material from various shoots on a hard drive ready for instant access. Of course I have a second drive as a backup plus DVD-DL's and Bluray discs of any footage I need to keep for 5 years or more. I was working with a PDW-700 yesterday and I really missed the colour VF of my EX3. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

January 14th, 2009, 08:20 AM	#49
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Form factor is an issue, I agree. But the EX3 is very versatile and it is easy to add a shoulder pad and put larger batteries on the back to get a good balance. The EX3 advantage is that you can then make it smaller for when you need to travel. I have some very old 64k compact flash cards and I can still read the data from them. I don't see any issue with using SD cards for long term storage. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

January 14th, 2009, 07:14 AM	#48
Brian Bang Jensen Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 79	You certainly give me something to think about!! If the picture quality, the workflow and the VF, on the EX3 outclass the F 3xx, then it all comes down to the form factor!! Then I have to ask the question, is that deciding factor? If Sony updates the F 3xx, so that it will produce an equal or maybe superior picture to the EX, then I will certainly stay with the the 3xx. As it is for now, you got me thinking! Regarding the storage on memory cards, I am not comfortable with that solution. If I should use a card based camera, as a daily tool, I would use a BR solution, either as a standard BR disk or an U1 and a XDCAM disk. I don’t trust HD drives and cards as a long term storage solution.

January 14th, 2009, 09:33 AM	#50
Brian Bang Jensen Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 79	Is there an adaptor for standard V-lock batteries?? Is there somewhere, where I can see a picture of an EX3, with attached shoulder mount? I have a friend who owns a photo shop, on occasions costumers come in with faulty memory cards! I can’t say why, but it happens… But I don’t trust them!

January 14th, 2009, 09:44 AM	#51
Ivan Snoeckx Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgium \| Europe Posts: 441	Hi Brian, Yes, Bebob in Germany manufactures a V-Lock mount for the EX3. It's the COCO-EX3-V. bebob COCO-EX3-V V-Mount Batterie-Adapter für Sony EX3

January 14th, 2009, 11:33 AM	#54
Brian Bang Jensen Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 79	http://www.videokit.co.uk/cgi-bin/st...gi?pid=652.htm Give him a starwars helmet and he can walk straight into the clone war… Simon you are of course right, all kind of media have its fault, I am just more comfortable with a media that is not dependable of electric charge. Maybe I will book a demo for an EX3. One thing for sure sometime in the near future I am in the market, for a new camera. Maybe Sony will come up with my favourite 3xx model or I will find the big wallet for a 700 or just settle with an EX3. For the moment I am not sure. A couple of bigger projects are coming up, let’s see how they develop.

January 20th, 2009, 10:19 AM	#57
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	I'd thought I'd address the archival issue and EX vs F3xx. If you look at B&H you'll see 23GB XDCAM discs ranging from about $20-$27. The Transcend Class 6 SDHC 16GB can be had from around $25-$30. If that's an acceptable price range for archival, those Transcend cards are not much more expensive than XDCAM disc. If space is an issue (and it is in many offices/facilities) you can certainly pack a closet with many more SDHC cards than XDCAM discs (but labeling is a bear!). If you need to hand the client the camera master, the client is going to have NO PROBLEM finding an SDHC reader and it'll cost a lot less than a U1. BTW at a 4X copy speed you'll be able to back up that SDHC pretty fast before you hand that master over. If long record time is your issue, pack two Sandisk Ultra II 32GB cards in that EX and you've got just nigh 4 hours. That 64GB certainly is competitive in record time to 50GB XDCAM disc. The gotcha is the 32GB cards are still pricy and at $150 a pop, aren't quite the archival bargain the 50GB disc is. I think they're many months away from being price competitive with 50GB discs though. Do keep in mind that you can buy 2 Transcend SDHC 16GB cards and have them loaded in EX camera for about the same price or less than 50GB XDCAM disc. If you do ENG/VNR super fast turnaround that 4x SDHC copy speed is nice and nearly 8x if you use SxS, is blazing. Of course XDCAM disc has proxy files but with SDHC/SxS you copy the "master" and you're done and working at full resolution. As to shoulder mounts, keep in mind JVC is moving to XDCAM EX codec too. The HM-700 looks to be its 200/250 replacement. It's shoulder mount and it'll record to XDCAM EX .mov which is an additional speed up for Final Cut Pro users. I don't doubt Sony will have an "EX5" which will be shoulder mount (and maybe some other nice features). By NAB, the only big advantage of the F3xx series may be the cost of 50GB discs. There may be other smaller advantages but the EX advantages are mounting. Future EX firmware updates may unlock additional features in that series. There's good reason why Sony doesn't let local dealers, let alone users get the firmware.