Sony HDW-650 New HDCAM at DVinfo.net

Mike Marriage · September 16th, 2008, 05:06 AM

Does anyone know anything about this camera? It looks like a HDCAM version of the PDW700 and a possible replacement to the HDW-790.

F12 sensitivity at 50Hz sounds good.

See here:
Creative Video Sony Specialist Dealers > Sony HDW-650P (HDW650P, HDW-650, HDW650) Multi-Format HDCAM Camcorder c/w Down-Converter + Picture Cache + Slow Shutter

Steve Phillipps · September 16th, 2008, 05:35 AM

It does look very like the PDW700 body. Seems like they just want to bring HDCams up to date a bit with LCD screen etc., to give tape a bit more longevity. I think the key thing is that HDCam tape system is very popular and probably will be for quite a while yet.
No mention of 720, be interesting if it could do that like the PDW700 will (appafrently, eventually!) Same chip so obviously it's capable, but maybe HDCam format doesn't support it?
Unless you're totally immersed in an HDCam workflow, I'd say you're much better off with the PDW700.
Steve

Simon Wyndham · September 17th, 2008, 08:34 AM

HDCAM is 1440x1080 only. This camera will probably just serve low cost high def factual programming. There is no 24p from the look of it.

There are probably a lot of freelance operators for whom this camera will make a lot of sense. XDCAM is still not at a point where freelancers can purchase one in the knowledge of constant work. Much as XDCAM is an incredible system, it is still best suited to individual operations taking on projects from conception to completion. In the UK at least.

Steve Phillipps · September 17th, 2008, 08:37 AM

Not sure I agree with that Simon, I think one of the strengths of file-based systems is that you're in a aposition to supply clients with what they can use as you can just dump it to hard drives, which is what all their edit suites will be based on. In the past the problem was that they'd need expensive player recorders for the format you shot on.
Steve

Simon Wyndham · September 17th, 2008, 08:48 AM

Having owned and operated XDCAM since it was first released in 2004, I have yet to come across many clients who are not XDCAM based who are willing to use the camera and allow footage to be copied to a separate device at the end of the day.

After all, after a 12 hour or more day, who wants to sit around copying files over to a laptop or hard drive? Especially 50Mbps high def footage, which can take a while, especially if there is more than one disc. I have always had to use non XDCAM cameras when working with a non XDCAM client who is hiring me as solely a camera operator. It causes a lot of fuss if you say you can take the disc home with you and copy to a hard drive that you will send to them. Kind of defies the point of a fast workflow! And is also kind of unprofessional.

In order to work smoothly the client really needs an XDCAM drive. Until now that meant a large deck or camera. But now there is the U1. However most non XDCAM users do not have one of these yet. The price of that device needs to come down much, much further if it is to help cement XDCAM usage into non XDCAM based suites.

So I stand by my assertion that XDCAM is much better, presently, for individual operations completing projects all the way through the workflow. Not for freelance camera ops.

Mike Marriage · September 17th, 2008, 09:05 AM

Anyone know if this replaces the HDW-790? The spec appears better but the lower model number makes it sound inferior... but then again the DSR450 replaced the 570.

I think these cameras are also more attractive in 50Hz land, where the lack of 24p is made up for by 25p.

Steve Phillipps · September 17th, 2008, 09:33 AM

I suppose that for quick turn-around stuff like news then you're right Simon, but not for longer term docos etc., where you'll have plenty of time to dump stuff to disc, or your client can hire in a machine for the edit, or even buy a U1 if the project is large enough. £1500 or so for the U1 is peanuts compared to what the cost used to be for a high end ingest machine.
Steve

Simon Wyndham · September 17th, 2008, 09:46 AM

The 790 is not long released.

The 650 looks to be an option for everyday high def programming in an HDCAM workflow. The price reflects this (list of £26k). So I'd expect retail of around £24k compared to £30k for the 790.

As far as I knew the 790 was the replacement for the 750. However the 750 is still being sold widely from the looks of things.

Greg Boston · September 17th, 2008, 11:45 AM

Looking at the specs and description, it is using the same optical block as the 1500/700 camera. Since it has a P designation (for PAL), I wonder if there's a US version coming out as well. From the left side, it looks virtually identical to the PDW-700.

-gb-

Simon Wyndham · September 17th, 2008, 11:55 AM

Yep, same head, same CCDs. And same base body. Bound to be the replacement for the 730.

There is a US model, since they note the sensitivity in 59.98hz mode.

Felix Tamuno · December 22nd, 2008, 05:51 AM

Does Sony have a different version of the Sony HDW-650P for the American market? If yes, what is it called and where can I get a US based dealer, preferably in Texas.

Brian Drysdale · December 22nd, 2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix Tamuno

Does Sony have a different version of the Sony HDW-650P for the American market? If yes, what is it called and where can I get a US based dealer, preferably in Texas.

Having just downloaded the manual there are 3 versions of the camera: The purely interlace (59.94i & 50i) HDW 650, the HDW 650F which does the interlace plus 23.98p and the HDW 650P, which does 25p instead of 23.98p.

The menu settings look more F900R and HDW 790 rather than HDW750, with hyper gamma options. Although, I'd assume you'll need completely different menu settings when creating your own look in camera compared to using these other HDCAM cameras.

Joe Lawry · December 22nd, 2008, 03:54 PM

Hmm, on a slightly different note and not trying to get us thrown in Area 51.. i was told by my dealer that a PDW750 was on the way.. i wonder if they got confused with this 650.

But then again.. one is xd and the other is hdcam.. so probably not.

edit: wait a minute.. theres a HDW750 already.. how longs that been out? He definitely said it was an XDCAM 750 though.

Simon Wyndham · December 22nd, 2008, 04:06 PM

He might be confused with the PDW-740 which is basically just a 700, but something to do with the Japanese market. I wasn't given the full details of the differences.

Ivan Snoeckx · December 23rd, 2008, 08:07 AM

That's right Simon. The PDW-740 is almost the same as the PDW-700. The only differences are that the PDW-740 uses HD FIT CCD's instead of HD PowerHAD FX CCD's on the PDW-700.

There is also a difference in sensitivity. F11 on the PDW-700 versus F10 on the PDW-740.

The signal to noise ratio also isn't the same. 59dB (Noise Suppression OFF = 54dB) with the 700 and 57.5dB (Noise Suppression OFF = 54dB).

The PDW-740 is especially made for the Japanese market.

September 16th, 2008, 05:06 AM	#1
Mike Marriage Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NE of London, England Posts: 788	Sony HDW-650 New HDCAM Does anyone know anything about this camera? It looks like a HDCAM version of the PDW700 and a possible replacement to the HDW-790. F12 sensitivity at 50Hz sounds good. See here: Creative Video Sony Specialist Dealers > Sony HDW-650P (HDW650P, HDW-650, HDW650) Multi-Format HDCAM Camcorder c/w Down-Converter + Picture Cache + Slow Shutter __________________ www.mikemarriage.com

September 17th, 2008, 09:05 AM	#6
Mike Marriage Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NE of London, England Posts: 788	Anyone know if this replaces the HDW-790? The spec appears better but the lower model number makes it sound inferior... but then again the DSR450 replaced the 570. I think these cameras are also more attractive in 50Hz land, where the lack of 24p is made up for by 25p. __________________ www.mikemarriage.com

December 22nd, 2008, 05:51 AM	#11
Felix Tamuno Tourist Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Port Harcourt, Rivers State, Nigeria Posts: 2	Sony HDW-650P Does Sony have a different version of the Sony HDW-650P for the American market? If yes, what is it called and where can I get a US based dealer, preferably in Texas.

September 16th, 2008, 05:35 AM	#2
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	It does look very like the PDW700 body. Seems like they just want to bring HDCams up to date a bit with LCD screen etc., to give tape a bit more longevity. I think the key thing is that HDCam tape system is very popular and probably will be for quite a while yet. No mention of 720, be interesting if it could do that like the PDW700 will (appafrently, eventually!) Same chip so obviously it's capable, but maybe HDCam format doesn't support it? Unless you're totally immersed in an HDCam workflow, I'd say you're much better off with the PDW700. Steve

September 17th, 2008, 08:34 AM	#3
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	HDCAM is 1440x1080 only. This camera will probably just serve low cost high def factual programming. There is no 24p from the look of it. There are probably a lot of freelance operators for whom this camera will make a lot of sense. XDCAM is still not at a point where freelancers can purchase one in the knowledge of constant work. Much as XDCAM is an incredible system, it is still best suited to individual operations taking on projects from conception to completion. In the UK at least.

September 17th, 2008, 08:37 AM	#4
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Not sure I agree with that Simon, I think one of the strengths of file-based systems is that you're in a aposition to supply clients with what they can use as you can just dump it to hard drives, which is what all their edit suites will be based on. In the past the problem was that they'd need expensive player recorders for the format you shot on. Steve

September 17th, 2008, 08:48 AM	#5
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Having owned and operated XDCAM since it was first released in 2004, I have yet to come across many clients who are not XDCAM based who are willing to use the camera and allow footage to be copied to a separate device at the end of the day. After all, after a 12 hour or more day, who wants to sit around copying files over to a laptop or hard drive? Especially 50Mbps high def footage, which can take a while, especially if there is more than one disc. I have always had to use non XDCAM cameras when working with a non XDCAM client who is hiring me as solely a camera operator. It causes a lot of fuss if you say you can take the disc home with you and copy to a hard drive that you will send to them. Kind of defies the point of a fast workflow! And is also kind of unprofessional. In order to work smoothly the client really needs an XDCAM drive. Until now that meant a large deck or camera. But now there is the U1. However most non XDCAM users do not have one of these yet. The price of that device needs to come down much, much further if it is to help cement XDCAM usage into non XDCAM based suites. So I stand by my assertion that XDCAM is much better, presently, for individual operations completing projects all the way through the workflow. Not for freelance camera ops.

September 17th, 2008, 09:33 AM	#7
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	I suppose that for quick turn-around stuff like news then you're right Simon, but not for longer term docos etc., where you'll have plenty of time to dump stuff to disc, or your client can hire in a machine for the edit, or even buy a U1 if the project is large enough. £1500 or so for the U1 is peanuts compared to what the cost used to be for a high end ingest machine. Steve

September 17th, 2008, 09:46 AM	#8
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	The 790 is not long released. The 650 looks to be an option for everyday high def programming in an HDCAM workflow. The price reflects this (list of £26k). So I'd expect retail of around £24k compared to £30k for the 790. As far as I knew the 790 was the replacement for the 750. However the 750 is still being sold widely from the looks of things.

September 17th, 2008, 11:45 AM	#9
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Looking at the specs and description, it is using the same optical block as the 1500/700 camera. Since it has a P designation (for PAL), I wonder if there's a US version coming out as well. From the left side, it looks virtually identical to the PDW-700. -gb-

September 17th, 2008, 11:55 AM	#10
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Yep, same head, same CCDs. And same base body. Bound to be the replacement for the 730. There is a US model, since they note the sensitivity in 59.98hz mode.

December 22nd, 2008, 03:54 PM	#13
Joe Lawry Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 418	Hmm, on a slightly different note and not trying to get us thrown in Area 51.. i was told by my dealer that a PDW750 was on the way.. i wonder if they got confused with this 650. But then again.. one is xd and the other is hdcam.. so probably not. edit: wait a minute.. theres a HDW750 already.. how longs that been out? He definitely said it was an XDCAM 750 though.

December 22nd, 2008, 04:06 PM	#14
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	He might be confused with the PDW-740 which is basically just a 700, but something to do with the Japanese market. I wasn't given the full details of the differences.

December 23rd, 2008, 08:07 AM	#15
Ivan Snoeckx Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Belgium \| Europe Posts: 441	That's right Simon. The PDW-740 is almost the same as the PDW-700. The only differences are that the PDW-740 uses HD FIT CCD's instead of HD PowerHAD FX CCD's on the PDW-700. There is also a difference in sensitivity. F11 on the PDW-700 versus F10 on the PDW-740. The signal to noise ratio also isn't the same. 59dB (Noise Suppression OFF = 54dB) with the 700 and 57.5dB (Noise Suppression OFF = 54dB). The PDW-740 is especially made for the Japanese market.