mxf + standalone player at DVinfo.net

Uli Mors · September 9th, 2008, 04:12 AM

Since XDCAM is mp@hl based I wonder if there are any small hardware media players like

TVIX, Kiss, or Popcorn a100 Mediaplayer

play the xdcam hd files DIRECTLY without retranscoding.

After reading a review I found that some of these boxes can play mpg ts or m2t files directly without any transcoding. That would be perfect for a fast presentation (think of an event where you like to show parts of the event in the pause or after the show).

Of course, the mediaplayers dont know *.mxf

a) Is there a way to unwrap mxf files into a mpg format?
b) 25mbit CBR is somewhat "HDV-Like", would at least THIS format be changable into a m2t format without recoding?

Any ideas highly appreciated

ULI

Richard Raaijmakers · September 9th, 2008, 05:36 AM

Uli,

Cineform Aspect HD can rewrap the MXF container in an MOV of AVI file.
Aspect HD isn' t cheap however.....but... I also use it to make high quality SD downconverts from the Premiere CS3 timeline.

Richard

Eelco Romeijn · September 9th, 2008, 03:20 PM

We just use the free Sony xdcam viewer (full screen mode) on a laptop connected through VGA to a large flatpanel or at the WXGA laptopscreen itself.

Uli Mors · September 10th, 2008, 12:45 AM

@richard: does it with no transcoding (so does it the unwrap FAST?)?

@eelco: Thats exactly what I want to avoid, I need a small "box" to be screwed onto/behind a wall or behind the screen itself when standing on a stand.

uli

Richard Raaijmakers · September 10th, 2008, 03:18 PM

Uli,

No, it does a transcode.
I've tested it on my system which is an Intel Quad Core 2.66Ghz with 4Gb RAM and a 1 Gb MXF file takes about 90 seconds te transcode.

Richard

Uli Mors · September 11th, 2008, 02:03 AM

hmmm....

the thing is : MXF is only a wrapper for mpg files (mp@hl CBR/VBR), I am sure that there exists a program to unwrap the mpg out of the mxf files again.

Then, a standalone player like A-100 should play those files.

My idea is to have a fast way to playout footage from a previos recording. And I want to avoi a) to buy a XDCAM HD player b) to use a laptop c) to transcode...

m2t files can be played straight out of the box , so I am looking for a way to access the XDCAM HD via mpg...

Lets investigate some more...

George Kroonder · September 11th, 2008, 03:42 AM

Yes, MXF is a container and yes, the EX data is MPEG2. Unfortunately the player need to support the specific Sony codec implementation even if you 'pour' it in another container (like AVI or QT).

But even if it did, the bitrate is much too high (even at SP) for simple players to handle. These are designed for DVD playback at best (10Mb/s).

This is what proxy files were created for but which the EX doesn't have. So you are stuck with:
- transcoding it to a lower bitrate format that you can play on the player of your choice
- or you playback from the camera (component maybe)
- or if you have an external recorder you can use that to either simultaneously record for immediate playback
- or if the external recorder is your primary rec. device you may be able to use that as a player (like the FlashXDR/nanoFlash)

George/

Uli Mors · September 11th, 2008, 05:36 AM

Hi,

I am sorry, but you are wrong.

At least some players (I read reviews of TVIX and Popcorn A-100) can play m2t seamless from the harddrive.

In the A100 the codec chip comes from PS3, so probably can handle even higher data rates (ok, thats suggestion).

At least it CAN play m2t = 25mbits.

XDCAM HD is the same data rate and compression is "HDV-family" mp@hl CBR.

I could imagine that the player would play mxf files when in the right file format.
But YES, thats a suggestion too, but worth a try...

ULI

George Kroonder · September 11th, 2008, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uli Mors

I am sorry, but you are wrong.

That has never happened before! ;-)

I've checked the A-100/A-110 specs and they claim playback up to at least 40Mb/s. So you indeed seem to be good there.

The Clip Browser can rewrap to MOV. Maybe that will do?

George/

Uli Mors · September 11th, 2008, 08:47 AM

Hey, thats a good idea!

Well.. I was talking about XDCAM HD (pdw-f330), but somebody should check the EX -> MOV...

Anyway, I will buy a A-100 soon, it would be a nice try to see if the A-100 plays those XDCAM EX MOVs....

There must be a way to unwrap the mxfs from XDCAM HD , too...

Uli Mors · January 13th, 2009, 01:16 AM

I purchased one.

Encoding video files in mpg hd (mpg2 HD) with 35mbit/s works find, pic results in the popcorn a110 are fantastic.

I also tried simply renaming a XDCAM EX 25mbit mxf file (from clip browser) into ".mpg" and put it on the player - IT PLAYS THE FILE (didnt check audio, its not connected yet) , but begins to stutter after a few seconds.
So generally, the unit can decode the xdcam hd code , but probably not fast enough...

Thats strange, since he fluently plays hdv and hdv files with higher data rates...

I´ll investigate a bit more.

ULI

Tom Roper · January 17th, 2009, 12:07 PM

Get the Snell and Wilcox MXF Desktop. It's a free mxf unwrapping utility. It unwraps the mpeg-2 from the mxf container without transcoding, but you have to encode the audio separately. I don't have a link, but do a search. It was free, but I recall I had to request a password which they emailed me withing 2-3 days.

It's much faster than any kind of transcoding, and lossless quality, but whether any of these new media players can support 35mbps would be interesting to know.

Perrone Ford · January 17th, 2009, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Roper

Get the Snell and Wilcox MXF Desktop. It's a free mxf unwrapping utility. It unwraps the mpeg-2 from the mxf container without transcoding, but you have to encode the audio separately. I don't have a link, but do a search. It was free, but I recall I had to request a password which they emailed me withing 2-3 days.

It's much faster than any kind of transcoding, and lossless quality, but whether any of these new media players can support 35mbps would be interesting to know.

Tom, I've looked for this utility and couldn't find it. Do you have a link?

And for those working with the EX1, the BPAV folder contains the .mp4 wrapped mpeg2 file. VLC plays this directly with no transcoding. So maybe the small boxes will play it too. This saves the step of using the clipbrowser to wrap it into an MXF.

Tom Roper · January 17th, 2009, 02:24 PM

Perrone is of course right about VLC playing mxf natively on the pc, so the main benefit here is for media players like the popcorn, western digital etc.

I'll see if I can find the link to the Snell & Wilcox mxf desktop.

Tom Roper · January 17th, 2009, 02:38 PM

Here is the link to mxf desktop

AmberFin MXF Desktop (free MXF file player)

It's now called AmberFin, and it mentions that it wraps to mxf, I think it should unwrap as well. If it doesn't let me know.

September 9th, 2008, 04:12 AM	#1
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	mxf + standalone player Since XDCAM is mp@hl based I wonder if there are any small hardware media players like TVIX, Kiss, or Popcorn a100 Mediaplayer play the xdcam hd files DIRECTLY without retranscoding. After reading a review I found that some of these boxes can play mpg ts or m2t files directly without any transcoding. That would be perfect for a fast presentation (think of an event where you like to show parts of the event in the pause or after the show). Of course, the mediaplayers dont know *.mxf a) Is there a way to unwrap mxf files into a mpg format? b) 25mbit CBR is somewhat "HDV-Like", would at least THIS format be changable into a m2t format without recoding? Any ideas highly appreciated ULI

September 9th, 2008, 05:36 AM	#2
Richard Raaijmakers New Boot Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Netherlands Posts: 17	Uli, Cineform Aspect HD can rewrap the MXF container in an MOV of AVI file. Aspect HD isn' t cheap however.....but... I also use it to make high quality SD downconverts from the Premiere CS3 timeline. Richard __________________ Panasonic AF101, Various Nikon Primes and zoomlenses

September 9th, 2008, 03:20 PM	#3
Eelco Romeijn Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Rotterdam (Netherlands) Posts: 60	We just use the free Sony xdcam viewer (full screen mode) on a laptop connected through VGA to a large flatpanel or at the WXGA laptopscreen itself. __________________ XDcamHD F330, 2" VF, Fujinon 13x3,3. 550D, MagicLantern, CS5.5 www.picturethis.tv

September 10th, 2008, 03:18 PM	#5
Richard Raaijmakers New Boot Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Netherlands Posts: 17	Uli, No, it does a transcode. I've tested it on my system which is an Intel Quad Core 2.66Ghz with 4Gb RAM and a 1 Gb MXF file takes about 90 seconds te transcode. Richard __________________ Panasonic AF101, Various Nikon Primes and zoomlenses

September 10th, 2008, 12:45 AM	#4
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	@richard: does it with no transcoding (so does it the unwrap FAST?)? @eelco: Thats exactly what I want to avoid, I need a small "box" to be screwed onto/behind a wall or behind the screen itself when standing on a stand. uli

September 11th, 2008, 02:03 AM	#6
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	hmmm.... the thing is : MXF is only a wrapper for mpg files (mp@hl CBR/VBR), I am sure that there exists a program to unwrap the mpg out of the mxf files again. Then, a standalone player like A-100 should play those files. My idea is to have a fast way to playout footage from a previos recording. And I want to avoi a) to buy a XDCAM HD player b) to use a laptop c) to transcode... m2t files can be played straight out of the box , so I am looking for a way to access the XDCAM HD via mpg... Lets investigate some more...

September 11th, 2008, 03:42 AM	#7
George Kroonder Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Utrecht, NL \| Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 612	Yes, MXF is a container and yes, the EX data is MPEG2. Unfortunately the player need to support the specific Sony codec implementation even if you 'pour' it in another container (like AVI or QT). But even if it did, the bitrate is much too high (even at SP) for simple players to handle. These are designed for DVD playback at best (10Mb/s). This is what proxy files were created for but which the EX doesn't have. So you are stuck with: - transcoding it to a lower bitrate format that you can play on the player of your choice - or you playback from the camera (component maybe) - or if you have an external recorder you can use that to either simultaneously record for immediate playback - or if the external recorder is your primary rec. device you may be able to use that as a player (like the FlashXDR/nanoFlash) George/

September 11th, 2008, 05:36 AM	#8
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	Hi, I am sorry, but you are wrong. At least some players (I read reviews of TVIX and Popcorn A-100) can play m2t seamless from the harddrive. In the A100 the codec chip comes from PS3, so probably can handle even higher data rates (ok, thats suggestion). At least it CAN play m2t = 25mbits. XDCAM HD is the same data rate and compression is "HDV-family" mp@hl CBR. I could imagine that the player would play mxf files when in the right file format. But YES, thats a suggestion too, but worth a try... ULI

September 11th, 2008, 08:47 AM	#10
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	Hey, thats a good idea! Well.. I was talking about XDCAM HD (pdw-f330), but somebody should check the EX -> MOV... Anyway, I will buy a A-100 soon, it would be a nice try to see if the A-100 plays those XDCAM EX MOVs.... There must be a way to unwrap the mxfs from XDCAM HD , too...

January 13th, 2009, 01:16 AM	#11
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	I purchased one. Encoding video files in mpg hd (mpg2 HD) with 35mbit/s works find, pic results in the popcorn a110 are fantastic. I also tried simply renaming a XDCAM EX 25mbit mxf file (from clip browser) into ".mpg" and put it on the player - IT PLAYS THE FILE (didnt check audio, its not connected yet) , but begins to stutter after a few seconds. So generally, the unit can decode the xdcam hd code , but probably not fast enough... Thats strange, since he fluently plays hdv and hdv files with higher data rates... I´ll investigate a bit more. ULI

January 17th, 2009, 12:07 PM	#12
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Get the Snell and Wilcox MXF Desktop. It's a free mxf unwrapping utility. It unwraps the mpeg-2 from the mxf container without transcoding, but you have to encode the audio separately. I don't have a link, but do a search. It was free, but I recall I had to request a password which they emailed me withing 2-3 days. It's much faster than any kind of transcoding, and lossless quality, but whether any of these new media players can support 35mbps would be interesting to know.

January 17th, 2009, 02:24 PM	#14
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Perrone is of course right about VLC playing mxf natively on the pc, so the main benefit here is for media players like the popcorn, western digital etc. I'll see if I can find the link to the Snell & Wilcox mxf desktop.

January 17th, 2009, 02:38 PM	#15
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Here is the link to mxf desktop AmberFin MXF Desktop (free MXF file player) It's now called AmberFin, and it mentions that it wraps to mxf, I think it should unwrap as well. If it doesn't let me know.