PDW-U1 Workflow with Final Cut at DVinfo.net

Tim Allison · August 18th, 2008, 03:44 PM

Here's what we want to do.....now someone please tell me if we can do it.

Our media guys have PC computers on their work desk, but all of our media work is done on a Mac with Final Cut Pro Suite. What we want to do is shoot on XDCAM disks, and log the disks on a PC computer using the PDZ-1 software. By logging, I mean select good takes, and enter in-points and out-points on these takes.....maybe even make some comments. Pretty simple stuff.

Now the PDW-U1 has the ability to write back to the disk all of this logging information. Once we finish logging and writing the info back to the XDCAM disk, we want to take the disk, plug it into a F75 deck, and using XDCAM Transfer software and Final Cut Pro, ingest only the selected clips with corresponding in-points and out-points. But the F75 deck, via the XDCAM Transfer software, does not see any of the logging work we have done on the PC and the PDZ-1 software.

Will this workflow work?

Gene Bauer · August 18th, 2008, 11:04 PM

We're implementing a very similiar workflow but our Producers save the EDL(cliplist) on a central server that both Final Cut workstation and PC based PDW-U1 stations can access. The FCP Editor imports the EDL from the server and batch ingests only the hi-res editlist clips....via 9pin control, KONA card hook up to an F70. This works well...no problems. The only EDL export option in PDZ-1 that Final Cut recognized was the BVE-9100 EDL.

I understand what you're trying to do I just haven't tested it yet. The file structure of an XDCAM Prodisc has four folders:
Subclip- proxies
clip- hi res clips
General- extcliplist will be stored here. extcliplists are EDL's that are made across more than one disc. PDZ-1 will write extcliplists to this folder using a PDW-U1
Edit- this is where PDZ-1 will write an EDL(based on 1 disc)

You can connect to an F75(from MAC) via network using Fetch or Transmit and access all of these folders. We have done this but have not tried the batch ingest based on EDL trick.
You could also try having the media guys at PDW-U1 station do a --under tools in PDZ-1-- "FAM partial file copy based on EDL" with the destination being the Final Cut station or some central server.

As far as XDCAM Transfer goes, I just think the problem is that it is not EDL aware. Can the MAC see the XDCAM disc like a hard drive(and it's folders) when firewired to an F75? This could be another option. Now you've got me motivated...I'll test this week. Sorry for writing a book.

Tim Allison · August 19th, 2008, 07:57 AM

Gene,

Yes, the Mac can easily see the F75 as a drive, and not just as a deck.

We've got six producers and three edit suites. We try to discourage using one of the edit suites as a logging station. It's far too valuable a resource to use in this way. We thought the PDW U1 drives would be perfect for each producer to log video at his/her own desk.

But so far, we have not been able to get the XDCAM Transfer software to "see" the work that was done on the PDZ-1 software. All we want to do is mark the best takes, and put in and out points on those good takes. If we can get that information to transfer from the producer's desk to the edit suite, then I will be a very happy camper.

Maybe I need to switch methods. You're trying to get this same type of information moved through an EDL. I'm trying to get the disk to remember logging info through metadata and essence marks. We probably need to try your EDL methodology.

Tim Allison · August 19th, 2008, 11:05 AM

Gene,

We tried your EDL method, and it works pretty good. Have you discovered a way to name each individual clip in the PDZ-1 software, create an EDL, and then ingest those clips in Final Cut with specific clip names? We can get the video to come in just fine, but the clip names are all based on the name of the disk, and not what we named them in the PDZ-1 software.

Peter Newsom · August 20th, 2008, 08:18 AM

Here is another approach that might work, depending on the capabilities of the PC version of XDCam Transfer and the ability to push data back to the PDW-U1.

It seems to me that I read that you can create sub-clip lists with the PC version of XDcam transfer(but not the Mac version). If you can, AND you can save the clip list back using the U1, then it should be much like using the the onboard editing capabilities of the F350.

You can create a a subclip list, of all the good bits trimmed to taste. In other words a 'cuts only' off-line edit. It gets saved back to the disk as a subclip list. The original footage remains untouched.

Later when you wish to import these clips, simply select that sub-clip list(which will be the last clip in the XDCam Transfer browser window, and import it into an FCP project. All the clips in the list are automatically imported, trimmed and in the correct order. You can then simply 'select all', and drag them from the bin onto the timeline, in the proper sequence.

The sub-clip list is in effect an EDL. It will also play the assembled clips out of a camera or machine for feeding or viewing. A very handy system!

Peter

Gene Bauer · August 20th, 2008, 08:08 PM

We have used XDCAM Transfer(MAC) as a stand alone application to move the hi-res MXF and convert to a high quality Quicktime's. We trimmed them into subclips within XDCAM Transfer and moved them directly to an external drive. In XDCAM Transfer you can set the import location under "Preferences"..in this case an external drive. Our clips are title by the DP in the field and these clip names stayed with the converted Quicktimes

This allowed a feelance GFX Artist to take the external drive home and work on it in After Effects. In one fell swoop the Editor had trimmed the fat on the raw footage, converted to Quicktime and made the footage portable.

I have not had success with what Tim is suggesting where clip names come into Final Cut intact. I imagine it would have to be a file based method as opposed to the EDL import and Kona card capture method we're using..I'll try some things within Final Cut/XDCAM Transfer with this goal in mind

Greg Boston · August 20th, 2008, 08:15 PM

Yes Gene, you'll have to use file based material transfer to take advantage of custom file names.

This can happen in XDCAM Transfer in one of two ways.

The first method is the one I use because it was the earliest available method. Using the clip title function in camera, you use the Prefs of XDCAM Transfer to have the file names of the resulting MOV files adopt the name of the clip title assigned in camera. The actual filenames on the XDCAM disc remain C00000.MXF, etc.

Later firmware allows for having the file names on the XDCAM disc adopt the clip title assignment in the camera. This means that your material coming into XDCAM Transfer already has the custom filenames.

regards,

-gb-

Tim Allison · August 21st, 2008, 12:46 PM

I'm beginning to lose hope on specific, customized file names. And to make sure I'm communicating here, by "customized file name," I mean something like "CU of man adjusting equipment." I am not talking about a name that is generated by the camera.

But we are making progress, and are pleased with our progress. We are using the PDZ-1 software to log video on a PC with a PDW-U1 drive. And we have successfully ingested that video into our Final Cut system using both Gene's EDL method, and Peter's sub-clip list method.

We just don't like the names that Final Cut gives each individual clip. They are somewhat cryptic, and not as useful as something like "Shot #12-CU of man adjusting equipment."

I'm sure we'll learn to live with what we get from the software and hardware.

Thank for the help, folks.

August 18th, 2008, 03:44 PM	#1
Tim Allison Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Starkville, MS Posts: 96	PDW-U1 Workflow with Final Cut Here's what we want to do.....now someone please tell me if we can do it. Our media guys have PC computers on their work desk, but all of our media work is done on a Mac with Final Cut Pro Suite. What we want to do is shoot on XDCAM disks, and log the disks on a PC computer using the PDZ-1 software. By logging, I mean select good takes, and enter in-points and out-points on these takes.....maybe even make some comments. Pretty simple stuff. Now the PDW-U1 has the ability to write back to the disk all of this logging information. Once we finish logging and writing the info back to the XDCAM disk, we want to take the disk, plug it into a F75 deck, and using XDCAM Transfer software and Final Cut Pro, ingest only the selected clips with corresponding in-points and out-points. But the F75 deck, via the XDCAM Transfer software, does not see any of the logging work we have done on the PC and the PDZ-1 software. Will this workflow work?

August 18th, 2008, 11:04 PM	#2
Gene Bauer Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 28	We're implementing a very similiar workflow but our Producers save the EDL(cliplist) on a central server that both Final Cut workstation and PC based PDW-U1 stations can access. The FCP Editor imports the EDL from the server and batch ingests only the hi-res editlist clips....via 9pin control, KONA card hook up to an F70. This works well...no problems. The only EDL export option in PDZ-1 that Final Cut recognized was the BVE-9100 EDL. I understand what you're trying to do I just haven't tested it yet. The file structure of an XDCAM Prodisc has four folders: Subclip- proxies clip- hi res clips General- extcliplist will be stored here. extcliplists are EDL's that are made across more than one disc. PDZ-1 will write extcliplists to this folder using a PDW-U1 Edit- this is where PDZ-1 will write an EDL(based on 1 disc) You can connect to an F75(from MAC) via network using Fetch or Transmit and access all of these folders. We have done this but have not tried the batch ingest based on EDL trick. You could also try having the media guys at PDW-U1 station do a --under tools in PDZ-1-- "FAM partial file copy based on EDL" with the destination being the Final Cut station or some central server. As far as XDCAM Transfer goes, I just think the problem is that it is not EDL aware. Can the MAC see the XDCAM disc like a hard drive(and it's folders) when firewired to an F75? This could be another option. Now you've got me motivated...I'll test this week. Sorry for writing a book.

August 19th, 2008, 07:57 AM	#3
Tim Allison Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Starkville, MS Posts: 96	Gene, Yes, the Mac can easily see the F75 as a drive, and not just as a deck. We've got six producers and three edit suites. We try to discourage using one of the edit suites as a logging station. It's far too valuable a resource to use in this way. We thought the PDW U1 drives would be perfect for each producer to log video at his/her own desk. But so far, we have not been able to get the XDCAM Transfer software to "see" the work that was done on the PDZ-1 software. All we want to do is mark the best takes, and put in and out points on those good takes. If we can get that information to transfer from the producer's desk to the edit suite, then I will be a very happy camper. Maybe I need to switch methods. You're trying to get this same type of information moved through an EDL. I'm trying to get the disk to remember logging info through metadata and essence marks. We probably need to try your EDL methodology.

August 19th, 2008, 11:05 AM	#4
Tim Allison Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Starkville, MS Posts: 96	Gene, We tried your EDL method, and it works pretty good. Have you discovered a way to name each individual clip in the PDZ-1 software, create an EDL, and then ingest those clips in Final Cut with specific clip names? We can get the video to come in just fine, but the clip names are all based on the name of the disk, and not what we named them in the PDZ-1 software.

August 20th, 2008, 08:18 AM	#5
Peter Newsom Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 182	Here is another approach that might work, depending on the capabilities of the PC version of XDCam Transfer and the ability to push data back to the PDW-U1. It seems to me that I read that you can create sub-clip lists with the PC version of XDcam transfer(but not the Mac version). If you can, AND you can save the clip list back using the U1, then it should be much like using the the onboard editing capabilities of the F350. You can create a a subclip list, of all the good bits trimmed to taste. In other words a 'cuts only' off-line edit. It gets saved back to the disk as a subclip list. The original footage remains untouched. Later when you wish to import these clips, simply select that sub-clip list(which will be the last clip in the XDCam Transfer browser window, and import it into an FCP project. All the clips in the list are automatically imported, trimmed and in the correct order. You can then simply 'select all', and drag them from the bin onto the timeline, in the proper sequence. The sub-clip list is in effect an EDL. It will also play the assembled clips out of a camera or machine for feeding or viewing. A very handy system! Peter

August 20th, 2008, 08:08 PM	#6
Gene Bauer Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 28	We have used XDCAM Transfer(MAC) as a stand alone application to move the hi-res MXF and convert to a high quality Quicktime's. We trimmed them into subclips within XDCAM Transfer and moved them directly to an external drive. In XDCAM Transfer you can set the import location under "Preferences"..in this case an external drive. Our clips are title by the DP in the field and these clip names stayed with the converted Quicktimes This allowed a feelance GFX Artist to take the external drive home and work on it in After Effects. In one fell swoop the Editor had trimmed the fat on the raw footage, converted to Quicktime and made the footage portable. I have not had success with what Tim is suggesting where clip names come into Final Cut intact. I imagine it would have to be a file based method as opposed to the EDL import and Kona card capture method we're using..I'll try some things within Final Cut/XDCAM Transfer with this goal in mind

August 20th, 2008, 08:15 PM	#7
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Yes Gene, you'll have to use file based material transfer to take advantage of custom file names. This can happen in XDCAM Transfer in one of two ways. The first method is the one I use because it was the earliest available method. Using the clip title function in camera, you use the Prefs of XDCAM Transfer to have the file names of the resulting MOV files adopt the name of the clip title assigned in camera. The actual filenames on the XDCAM disc remain C00000.MXF, etc. Later firmware allows for having the file names on the XDCAM disc adopt the clip title assignment in the camera. This means that your material coming into XDCAM Transfer already has the custom filenames. regards, -gb-

August 21st, 2008, 12:46 PM	#8
Tim Allison Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Starkville, MS Posts: 96	I'm beginning to lose hope on specific, customized file names. And to make sure I'm communicating here, by "customized file name," I mean something like "CU of man adjusting equipment." I am not talking about a name that is generated by the camera. But we are making progress, and are pleased with our progress. We are using the PDZ-1 software to log video on a PC with a PDW-U1 drive. And we have successfully ingested that video into our Final Cut system using both Gene's EDL method, and Peter's sub-clip list method. We just don't like the names that Final Cut gives each individual clip. They are somewhat cryptic, and not as useful as something like "Shot #12-CU of man adjusting equipment." I'm sure we'll learn to live with what we get from the software and hardware. Thank for the help, folks.