Deep Black Balancing at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
Register FAQ Today's Posts Buyer's Guides

Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts
Sony PDW-F800, PDW-700, PDW-850, PXW-X500 (XDCAM HD) and PMW-400, PMW-320 (XDCAM EX).

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 28th, 2008, 12:36 PM   #1
Taken away too young... rest in peace Eugene
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 161
Deep Black Balancing

How often do the rest of you do a "deep" black balance?

I do a normal black balance at the start of each day of shooting, but I'm not clear how often to do a "deep" black balance. The "deep" black balance being when you hold down the switch for 5 seconds or more and it does the long and more complicated black balance that includes stuck pixel remapping and repair.

This process isn't mentioned in the manual, but this is how a Sony engineer told me it works when I looked into how these cameras deal with stuck pixels before I bought the camera.

I had planned to only do this every month or so, but having seen an annoying stuck pixel on my last shoot that I couldn't see during the shoot, I'm now thinking I should do it at the start of each day of shooting.
__________________
Scorpio Productions
PDW-F335, PDW-U1, Vegas Pro 9.0b
Eugene Kosarovich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2008, 10:48 PM   #2
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW area, TX
Posts: 6,117
Images: 1
Actually, that's not quite correct. Black balancing is only looking to set the individual pixel output to zero current with a closed iris (true black condition). These small currents are produced by internal 'thermal noise'. The normal black balance (momentary toggle), does one channel. Repeating the same momentary toggle, you'll see that it goes to the next channel. And after the third toggle, all three channels are done. The extended hold on the switch will force all three channels to be done at once, creating fresh reference data and takes longer.

Pixel masking is a manual process performed in the service menus and there are two sets of data retained in memory, one for the normal shutter speeds, and another for slow shutter which can reveal hot pixels that aren't present at normal shutter speeds and thus shouldn't be removed from the image under normal shooting modes.

Black balancing can't shut down a truly stuck (lit) pixel. It's essentially a short circuit that produces maximum output current all the time, even in total darkness. By contrast, a dead pixel is an open circuit that produces no output regardless of how much light is hitting it.

-gb-
Greg Boston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2008, 12:06 AM   #3
Taken away too young... rest in peace Eugene
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 161
So if a momentary toggle black balance only does one color channel, doesn't that imply that one should always do it three times? Wouldn't the R, G, and B channels all need to be adjusted to zero for a correct black balance?

I know the service menus do allow manual pixel masking, for pixel problems that the camera can't correct itself.

But now that I look up what I wrote down when I talked to the engineer, he said that most of the problems are Residual Point Noise which the camera can correct via the long black balance. I believe this is the zero current issue you mention. But then he went on to say that it would switch to masking where the RPN couldn't be fixed, it would remap interpolated data in place of the bad data for up to a 4 pixel wide area.

It's possible I misunderstood him, maybe all the pixel masking is manual and limited to a 4 pixel wide area? But automatic was the way I understood it from the conversation I had with the engineer at the NJ Sony Service Center before purchasing, cause I wanted to find out what the latest tech was to deal with pixel issues, considering there are 4 times more pixels in the F3xx than on my DSR-300A, and I'd had pixel issues with that in the past.

Well, as long as I only hit RPN that can be fixed like this time, I'm happy. :)
__________________
Scorpio Productions
PDW-F335, PDW-U1, Vegas Pro 9.0b
Eugene Kosarovich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2008, 02:20 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Scotland (UK)
Posts: 219
I use the black balance on occasion's, but certainly not every day we are going to be using our F350 which is mainly for general commercial work. I have noticed what appears to be the odd stuck pixel (if that's what it is) after flights, that were clearly visible on an HD 8.4" monitor - black balancing (approx 5 second hold) has always cleared the problem. Checking the camera at a later stage on a larger HD monitor confirmed that the repairs were successful. Certainly the F350 has been very reliable.

Regards, Stewart.
www.studioscotland.com
Stewart Menelaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2008, 06:40 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
That's been my experience too. The odd stuck pixel that a 5 second WB removes.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2008, 03:15 AM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 2,130
There was one on my F355 when it got it out of the box!
Steve
Steve Phillipps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2008, 03:24 AM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Graz, Austria
Posts: 44
So, in the XDCAM, there is no memory-limitation on black balance and the dead pixel correction, like in the digibeta-cams?
Robert Schemitsch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 1st, 2008, 12:38 AM   #8
Taken away too young... rest in peace Eugene
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 161
No, there is a memory limitation, but there is more memory in the XDCAM HD line of cameras than in previous cameras.

The engineer also told me that when the camera checks pixels, it checks all of them, including previously corrected pixels, so if the pixel "gets better" on its own, it can come back, and free that space in memory for other pixels that go bad. He said previous cameras couldn't do that, so they ran out of memory quicker. He said some pixels do get better on their own, so that is an advantage to be able to put them back in. I expect he only meant this for any automatic remapping, since I don't think it would override manual remapping.

I also had a bad pixel out of the box with my F335. Latest theories say cosmic rays are the main cause of them, which is why flying the cameras tends to cause more, with less protection from the atmosphere at those altitudes.
__________________
Scorpio Productions
PDW-F335, PDW-U1, Vegas Pro 9.0b
Eugene Kosarovich is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony ENG / EFP Shoulder Mounts


 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:16 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network