User matrix settings at DVinfo.net

Josip Ruzic · February 23rd, 2008, 02:43 PM

Hi to all,
Last summer I shoot some scene with beauty green grass, at least on naked eye. Reviewing the footage I was suprised how "dry" that grass looks. None of that freshness...Yes I know, I can fix that in post...My conclusion is: factory color settings are set too warm. Don't get me wrong, mostly I like that warmish tint, but sometimes (matching with DVcam for exemple) I don't. I try to get rid of that yellowish tint by altering items in user matrix menu. After some tweaking I gave up...too risky for me. I also try to lower the overall preset temperature, and now I use 3100 for interiors, and 5400 for exeriors....but I feel that this isn't the solution. Anybody try to tweak user matrix? Nate once wrote: "Not that we need to go into it in this thread, but man, we need to get the word out on what white balance offsets are needed to lose that tell-tale yellow tinge on the XDCAM HD cameras!"

Joseph

Josip Ruzic · February 25th, 2008, 03:34 AM

Nate, UIi what is your opinion?

Uli Mors · February 25th, 2008, 03:56 AM

Hi Josip,

setting the matrix without a Color Chart and some experience is impossible.

To get an impression of how it works:

Paolo Ciccone has done it for the JVC HD200:

http://www.paolociccone.com/hd100-calibration.html

The same way it works with XDCAM HD , too.

As said, I am not experienced in these operations nor do I ever tried it.

Once Paolo wanted to create a "True Color" Setting for XDCAM HD, but I think he didnt find the time to.

I like the setting(s) found on xdcam.com.au (see below) and use HiSAT Settings.

Perhaps we should ask Paolo again, to do a TC preset?

Kind regards

ULI

_________________________________________________

To save typing for ages the following list has the menu heading and the setting values only and should be easy enough to follow. I am only listing the menus that have a bearing on the final results. Before you start SAVE ANY SCENE FILE YOU HAVE LOADED, as you will lose it. Start with Menu A51 and recall a STANDARD SCENE FILE as a starting point. Now follow the rest. Remember these settings are for use with the DCC in the ‘ON’ position.

Menu A42 Paint
0
0
0
STD
0 (Going + or – on this can yield subtle results, try –15 and +15 and see!)
0
STD

Menu A43 Status
ON
ON
ON
ON
ON

Menu A45 Knee
95.0
0
140 (Telecam suggests 130, try it you may prefer it! 140 works best here!)
104.0

Menu A46 Detail
0
0
0
0
164
STD (Can be set to HI for Std Def, personal choice thing)
ON

Menu A48 Matrix 1
ON
ON
0
0
ON
STD (Can be set to HI SAT if you want more chroma, some producers love it!)

Menu A49 Matrix 2 (This changes the entire look of the camera!)
11
9
5
15
11
11

Menu A50 Low Key Sat (again changes the look)
10 (Can be set up to 20 for more colour in low light but be careful going too high, can look unnatural!)

If you like what you see use it, if you don’t, loose it .

If you do use it give it a name and remember to save it under Menu A63, ALL FILE, NOT A62, USER FILE. THIS IS IMPORTANT, AS ‘ALL FILE’ WILL SAVE EVERY CHANGE MADE.

Josip Ruzic · February 25th, 2008, 04:55 AM

Uli, thanks...as always you are very detailed, be sure I'm gonna try what you suggest...

All the best,
Joseph

Bill Ravens · February 25th, 2008, 08:38 AM

hey guys....check here----->

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=110902

it's a pretty long thread, but, you'll find what you're looking for.

Thierry Humeau · February 26th, 2008, 09:08 AM

The camera settings tweeks posted by Uli Mors above have served us very well. It is a huge improvement over the camera factory settings.

Enjoy.

Thierry.

Bill Ravens · February 26th, 2008, 09:54 AM

sorry, you're talking XDCAM HD, I posted in the wrong thread, my apologies.

Greg Boston · February 26th, 2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thierry Humeau

The camera settings tweeks posted by Uli Mors above have served us very well. It is a huge improvement over the camera factory settings.

Enjoy.

Thierry.

Agreed. I like they way they look. Of note is that those settings are intended for use with DCC set to the on position.

-gb-

Simon Wyndham · February 28th, 2008, 04:47 AM

Don't forget that Sony US has scoped settings available for download from their website.

Uli Mors · February 28th, 2008, 05:34 AM

Yes.

Though the above settings work very well for me - I am also interested in the "full fresh green grass" settings ;-)

I´ve seen footage from XDCAM (SD) shot in spring that really impressed me.

Wonder, if this was achieved by cam settings or post.

ULI

Josip Ruzic · February 29th, 2008, 05:22 AM

Uli, I was playing a bit with the settings you suggested, and find that this picture look a little "punchy", very saturated, and yellow tint still remains... So, I left every setting as is, except two menu items. First, I changed:
A41 (Paint)
0
0
-5 (Master black)
STD
0
0
HISAT

A48 (Matrix2)
-25
0
0
0
0
-26

Basically, I lowered the yellow part of the picture. With this new settings I achieved picture very similar to naked eye. This settings work with factory preset setting. No need to lower the preset tempeartue...And the grass is greener :))
Uli, I would like to test it and report your opinion

Sincerely,
Joseph

Eugene Kosarovich · March 23rd, 2008, 05:19 PM

I'm going to try these settings on the F335 I just got. It has the same issue of the knee saturation claiming a range (-99 to +99) in the manual while it actually is 0 to 199 in the camera, so with the default setting at 0, it just seems wrong.

I'm gonna try all the suggestions in this thread and see what happens, the ALL page numbers are identical, so they seem to be the same settings, even though the settings here were originally for the F330/F350.

As for the Sony settings on the Sony USA website, I'm a little hesitant to try them on my F335 in case something is different, since they specifically say F330/F350 and it's an actual download into the camera versus typing in some numbers. Do you think they would be safe to try?

Also, is there any way to set black stretch on these cameras? I'm used to the black stretch setting on my DSR-300A and my Z1. It really helps me pull out shadow detail in the events I shoot.

Thanks.

Greg Boston · March 23rd, 2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene Kosarovich

Also, is there any way to set black stretch on these cameras? I'm used to the black stretch setting on my DSR-300A and my Z1. It really helps me pull out shadow detail in the events I shoot.

That would be the Black Gamma setting. Lowering the value crushes the blacks while raising it stretches them.

-gb-

February 23rd, 2008, 02:43 PM	#1
Josip Ruzic New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 20	User matrix settings Hi to all, Last summer I shoot some scene with beauty green grass, at least on naked eye. Reviewing the footage I was suprised how "dry" that grass looks. None of that freshness...Yes I know, I can fix that in post...My conclusion is: factory color settings are set too warm. Don't get me wrong, mostly I like that warmish tint, but sometimes (matching with DVcam for exemple) I don't. I try to get rid of that yellowish tint by altering items in user matrix menu. After some tweaking I gave up...too risky for me. I also try to lower the overall preset temperature, and now I use 3100 for interiors, and 5400 for exeriors....but I feel that this isn't the solution. Anybody try to tweak user matrix? Nate once wrote: "Not that we need to go into it in this thread, but man, we need to get the word out on what white balance offsets are needed to lose that tell-tale yellow tinge on the XDCAM HD cameras!" Joseph

February 26th, 2008, 09:08 AM	#6
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	The camera settings tweeks posted by Uli Mors above have served us very well. It is a huge improvement over the camera factory settings. Enjoy. Thierry. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com

February 25th, 2008, 03:34 AM	#2
Josip Ruzic New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 20	Nate, UIi what is your opinion?

February 25th, 2008, 03:56 AM	#3
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	Hi Josip, setting the matrix without a Color Chart and some experience is impossible. To get an impression of how it works: Paolo Ciccone has done it for the JVC HD200: http://www.paolociccone.com/hd100-calibration.html The same way it works with XDCAM HD , too. As said, I am not experienced in these operations nor do I ever tried it. Once Paolo wanted to create a "True Color" Setting for XDCAM HD, but I think he didnt find the time to. I like the setting(s) found on xdcam.com.au (see below) and use HiSAT Settings. Perhaps we should ask Paolo again, to do a TC preset? Kind regards ULI _________________________________________________ To save typing for ages the following list has the menu heading and the setting values only and should be easy enough to follow. I am only listing the menus that have a bearing on the final results. Before you start SAVE ANY SCENE FILE YOU HAVE LOADED, as you will lose it. Start with Menu A51 and recall a STANDARD SCENE FILE as a starting point. Now follow the rest. Remember these settings are for use with the DCC in the ‘ON’ position. Menu A42 Paint 0 0 0 STD 0 (Going + or – on this can yield subtle results, try –15 and +15 and see!) 0 STD Menu A43 Status ON ON ON ON ON Menu A45 Knee 95.0 0 140 (Telecam suggests 130, try it you may prefer it! 140 works best here!) 104.0 Menu A46 Detail 0 0 0 0 164 STD (Can be set to HI for Std Def, personal choice thing) ON Menu A48 Matrix 1 ON ON 0 0 ON STD (Can be set to HI SAT if you want more chroma, some producers love it!) Menu A49 Matrix 2 (This changes the entire look of the camera!) 11 9 5 15 11 11 Menu A50 Low Key Sat (again changes the look) 10 (Can be set up to 20 for more colour in low light but be careful going too high, can look unnatural!) If you like what you see use it, if you don’t, loose it . If you do use it give it a name and remember to save it under Menu A63, ALL FILE, NOT A62, USER FILE. THIS IS IMPORTANT, AS ‘ALL FILE’ WILL SAVE EVERY CHANGE MADE.

February 25th, 2008, 04:55 AM	#4
Josip Ruzic New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 20	Uli, thanks...as always you are very detailed, be sure I'm gonna try what you suggest... All the best, Joseph

February 25th, 2008, 08:38 AM	#5
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	hey guys....check here-----> http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=110902 it's a pretty long thread, but, you'll find what you're looking for.

February 26th, 2008, 09:54 AM	#7
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	sorry, you're talking XDCAM HD, I posted in the wrong thread, my apologies.

February 28th, 2008, 04:47 AM	#9
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Don't forget that Sony US has scoped settings available for download from their website.

February 28th, 2008, 05:34 AM	#10
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	Yes. Though the above settings work very well for me - I am also interested in the "full fresh green grass" settings ;-) I´ve seen footage from XDCAM (SD) shot in spring that really impressed me. Wonder, if this was achieved by cam settings or post. ULI

February 29th, 2008, 05:22 AM	#11
Josip Ruzic New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Croatia Posts: 20	Uli, I was playing a bit with the settings you suggested, and find that this picture look a little "punchy", very saturated, and yellow tint still remains... So, I left every setting as is, except two menu items. First, I changed: A41 (Paint) 0 0 -5 (Master black) STD 0 0 HISAT A48 (Matrix2) -25 0 0 0 0 -26 Basically, I lowered the yellow part of the picture. With this new settings I achieved picture very similar to naked eye. This settings work with factory preset setting. No need to lower the preset tempeartue...And the grass is greener :)) Uli, I would like to test it and report your opinion Sincerely, Joseph

March 23rd, 2008, 05:19 PM	#12
Eugene Kosarovich Taken away too young... rest in peace Eugene Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 161	I'm going to try these settings on the F335 I just got. It has the same issue of the knee saturation claiming a range (-99 to +99) in the manual while it actually is 0 to 199 in the camera, so with the default setting at 0, it just seems wrong. I'm gonna try all the suggestions in this thread and see what happens, the ALL page numbers are identical, so they seem to be the same settings, even though the settings here were originally for the F330/F350. As for the Sony settings on the Sony USA website, I'm a little hesitant to try them on my F335 in case something is different, since they specifically say F330/F350 and it's an actual download into the camera versus typing in some numbers. Do you think they would be safe to try? Also, is there any way to set black stretch on these cameras? I'm used to the black stretch setting on my DSR-300A and my Z1. It really helps me pull out shadow detail in the events I shoot. Thanks.