XDCAM HD disk robustness at DVinfo.net

Alister Chapman · October 8th, 2007, 08:36 AM

I don't claim to be the first to do this, but you if your disks get dirty you can just stick them in the dishwasher.... Just joking.

Just to prove how robust the disks are I put one through my dishwasher.

http://www.ingenioustv.com/clips/dishwasherweb.mov

I wouldn't suggest trying this with a tape.

Thierry Humeau · October 8th, 2007, 08:46 AM

Excellent! I am sold.

Thierry.

Emanuel Altenburger · October 8th, 2007, 10:04 AM

Cool clip ... :-)
When I was a kid my first 8mm video-camera got a bit wet once (not on purpose;-) - well, and also did the tape become wet. Most of the footage was "wet" as well and I couldn´t use much of it.
It´s really good to see how everything is moving on:-)

Mike Watson · October 10th, 2007, 04:43 PM

On the other hand, if the tape door to a beta tape pops open and your finger brushes against it, the tape is still usable.

Try that with a fingerprint on a disk...

Greg Boston · October 10th, 2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Watson

On the other hand, if the tape door to a beta tape pops open and your finger brushes against it, the tape is still usable.

Try that with a fingerprint on a disk...

I still like my chances with the disc in adverse conditions vs. tape. About the only thing Sony says you can't do, is get fingerprints on the disc, and even then you have to work at doing that (ie on purpose). I may have to test that theory myself!

-gb-

Mike Watson · October 10th, 2007, 05:57 PM

I notice that the more data you cram on a disk, the less forgiving it is. You can really manhandle a CD, and still listen to it. DVDs are more sensitive, and will deal with light scratches, but get very finicky. XDCam has very little tolerance.

Twice I've had a disk pop out of the camera (or deck) with the doors stuck open and fingerprinted the disk. First one was unrecoverable; second one I took a cotton pad and alcohol and wiped away the print, and pried the doors closed.

It's a similar give and take with cell phones... analog phones, you got snow all the time -- it was like being on a walkie talkie. Now with digital phones, it's much clearer! But down at the bottom of that valley... g'bye! Dropped call.

Matthew Ernest Adams · October 11th, 2007, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Watson

I notice that the more data you cram on a disk, the less forgiving it is. You can really manhandle a CD, and still listen to it. DVDs are more sensitive, and will deal with light scratches, but get very finicky. XDCam has very little tolerance.

Twice I've had a disk pop out of the camera (or deck) with the doors stuck open and fingerprinted the disk. First one was unrecoverable; second one I took a cotton pad and alcohol and wiped away the print, and pried the doors closed.

It's a similar give and take with cell phones... analog phones, you got snow all the time -- it was like being on a walkie talkie. Now with digital phones, it's much clearer! But down at the bottom of that valley... g'bye! Dropped call.

My staff of 19 photogs and myself have been using XDCAM HD (PDW-F350's + both deck styles), producing local news on a daily basis with 10 edit bays, 5 live trucks and a sat truck and multiple logging XD decks and have NEVER had this happen. Not saying it didn't, just stating that out of the many, many times discs have been ejected over the past year (thousands+) we never had a disc exposed. Only two that I'm aware of were supposedly corrupted, but I never laid eyes on them myself (heard about it through a Canopus tech).

Mike Watson · October 11th, 2007, 01:13 PM

My staff of 25 photogs, 8 live trucks, one satellite truck and a helicopter have seen a few fingerprints, and a few problems. Given the choice, I'd stiill choose XDCam instead of Beta - I love the format, and the options. I merely dispute the fact that disk is without problems.

Greg Boston · October 11th, 2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Watson

Twice I've had a disk pop out of the camera (or deck) with the doors stuck open and fingerprinted the disk. First one was unrecoverable; second one I took a cotton pad and alcohol and wiped away the print, and pried the doors closed.

Mind boggling. That's the first I've ever heard of that happening. BTW, you don't have to pry the doors shut, just roll the toothed gear on the edge of the disc until you hear a distinct 'click' as the door latch engages.

Out of curiosity, are you using Sony branded discs, or one of the other three brands.

Simon Wyndham · October 11th, 2007, 03:55 PM

Great video Alister.

Regarding disc doors getting stuck open, I have never had this happen, and this is the first I've known of it.

However news camera people are worse than toddlers for being able to find ways to destroy stuff, so I'll put it down to that! ;-)

Simon Wyndham · October 11th, 2007, 04:04 PM

I should add though Mike that you should be able to wipe the fingerprint off the disc. The surface of those things are harder than diamond so the chances of scratching them is pretty remote.

Mike Watson · October 12th, 2007, 12:12 AM

We're using the Sony branded disks. It's happened to me personally once, and we had to retire the disk. As much of an issue as it's turning into in this thread, I don't really consider it that much of a problem. Like I said, I'd buy again.

Alister Chapman · October 12th, 2007, 01:12 AM

The TDK disks are supposed to be tougher than the sony disks. The disk I washed was a Sony one. I have been at a dealer conference and the disk got passed around, opened up, had finger prints all over the disk and after wiping off the prints it still works. I wouldn't use it again for anything else, but I can still play back the clips.

When I was storm chasing last year we were in Mini Cooper that was all but destroyed in a hail storm. The car was full of hail, which melted soaking everything including a months worth of rushes. My HDV tapes were ruined while my XDCAM HD disks were fine once dried off.

Simon Wyndham · October 12th, 2007, 01:18 AM

Mike, there must be something going on with the cameras that you use for you to have this issue across your whole staff and cameras while to my knowledge I haven't heard of this problem elsewhere. This shouldn't be happening at all.

All I can think is that either;

1. You've had a dodgy batch of discs.
2. The discs are getting seriously mistreated (how did finger prints get on the disc surface anyway?)
3. There is something seriously amiss with your drive mechanism and it isn't properly making contact with the geared part of the disc that opens and closes the door.

Whatever the case this problem shouldn't be ocurring at all, even on a very infrequent basis and IMHO either the equipment or something your crew is doing needs looking at to get to the bottom of it.

Uli Mors · October 12th, 2007, 02:31 AM

fantastic video!!

How about putting the cam in the diswasher?

just kiddin´ ;-)

ULi

October 8th, 2007, 08:36 AM	#1
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	XDCAM HD disk robustness I don't claim to be the first to do this, but you if your disks get dirty you can just stick them in the dishwasher.... Just joking. Just to prove how robust the disks are I put one through my dishwasher. http://www.ingenioustv.com/clips/dishwasherweb.mov I wouldn't suggest trying this with a tape. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

October 8th, 2007, 08:46 AM	#2
Thierry Humeau Telecam Films Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington DC Posts: 723	Excellent! I am sold. Thierry. __________________ Thierry Humeau, DoP Télécam Films www.telecamfilms.com

October 12th, 2007, 01:12 AM	#13
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	The TDK disks are supposed to be tougher than the sony disks. The disk I washed was a Sony one. I have been at a dealer conference and the disk got passed around, opened up, had finger prints all over the disk and after wiping off the prints it still works. I wouldn't use it again for anything else, but I can still play back the clips. When I was storm chasing last year we were in Mini Cooper that was all but destroyed in a hail storm. The car was full of hail, which melted soaking everything including a months worth of rushes. My HDV tapes were ruined while my XDCAM HD disks were fine once dried off. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

October 8th, 2007, 10:04 AM	#3
Emanuel Altenburger Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Innsbruck, Austria Posts: 134	Cool clip ... :-) When I was a kid my first 8mm video-camera got a bit wet once (not on purpose;-) - well, and also did the tape become wet. Most of the footage was "wet" as well and I couldn´t use much of it. It´s really good to see how everything is moving on:-)

October 10th, 2007, 04:43 PM	#4
Mike Watson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,082	On the other hand, if the tape door to a beta tape pops open and your finger brushes against it, the tape is still usable. Try that with a fingerprint on a disk...

October 10th, 2007, 05:57 PM	#6
Mike Watson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,082	I notice that the more data you cram on a disk, the less forgiving it is. You can really manhandle a CD, and still listen to it. DVDs are more sensitive, and will deal with light scratches, but get very finicky. XDCam has very little tolerance. Twice I've had a disk pop out of the camera (or deck) with the doors stuck open and fingerprinted the disk. First one was unrecoverable; second one I took a cotton pad and alcohol and wiped away the print, and pried the doors closed. It's a similar give and take with cell phones... analog phones, you got snow all the time -- it was like being on a walkie talkie. Now with digital phones, it's much clearer! But down at the bottom of that valley... g'bye! Dropped call.

October 11th, 2007, 01:13 PM	#8
Mike Watson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,082	My staff of 25 photogs, 8 live trucks, one satellite truck and a helicopter have seen a few fingerprints, and a few problems. Given the choice, I'd stiill choose XDCam instead of Beta - I love the format, and the options. I merely dispute the fact that disk is without problems.

October 11th, 2007, 03:55 PM	#10
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Great video Alister. Regarding disc doors getting stuck open, I have never had this happen, and this is the first I've known of it. However news camera people are worse than toddlers for being able to find ways to destroy stuff, so I'll put it down to that! ;-)

October 11th, 2007, 04:04 PM	#11
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	I should add though Mike that you should be able to wipe the fingerprint off the disc. The surface of those things are harder than diamond so the chances of scratching them is pretty remote.

October 12th, 2007, 12:12 AM	#12
Mike Watson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,082	We're using the Sony branded disks. It's happened to me personally once, and we had to retire the disk. As much of an issue as it's turning into in this thread, I don't really consider it that much of a problem. Like I said, I'd buy again.

October 12th, 2007, 01:18 AM	#14
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Mike, there must be something going on with the cameras that you use for you to have this issue across your whole staff and cameras while to my knowledge I haven't heard of this problem elsewhere. This shouldn't be happening at all. All I can think is that either; 1. You've had a dodgy batch of discs. 2. The discs are getting seriously mistreated (how did finger prints get on the disc surface anyway?) 3. There is something seriously amiss with your drive mechanism and it isn't properly making contact with the geared part of the disc that opens and closes the door. Whatever the case this problem shouldn't be ocurring at all, even on a very infrequent basis and IMHO either the equipment or something your crew is doing needs looking at to get to the bottom of it.

October 12th, 2007, 02:31 AM	#15
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	fantastic video!! How about putting the cam in the diswasher? just kiddin´ ;-) ULi