A7s or GH4 - which for you?

[Peter Rush]

Originally Posted by Clive McLaughlin

But I'll start by addressing your point! My A7S came within three days, from HONG KONG! I was shocked!

It is the universal 'world camera' version.

I love it.

I'm just about sold on this camera but I'm loathe to order from Hong Kong as I'm in the middle of trying to get a Samyang lens repaired under warranty from Onestopdigital (Hong Kong based), and it's proving a bit of a nightmare! Does this mean the EU version of the A7s will be locked down to 29.9 seconds as per the 5d?

Clive can you confirm the camera has zoom focus assist while recording?

Cheers

Pete

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Michael Eggerton

Game of Thrones isn't shot in 4K. Why are we so concerned with 4K for our weddings?

You could argue lots of things based on what other people do or do not do / need.

You could also argue that since Game of Thrones isn't filmed in low light we shouldn't be filming weddings in low light and should be lighting the scene appropriately. Hmmm....

While few (if any) of us are delivering weddings in 4K today, having the flexibility to shoot wide and crop in post on an unrepeatable event means added flexibility later on in post.

I highly doubt Game of Thrones is shot entirely in single takes so if the camera move screws up they can re-take it. Try doing that at a wedding ceremony.

Just because we don't 'need' something doesn't mean no one should think about using it.

We don't need sliders. Poeple use them to great effect. We don't need steady cam, but lots of people make awesome footage with them. We don't need 4K, but it's yet another tool in the box we can use to great advantage.

There are lots of people resisting it. That's fine. I know a pair of wedding video people still shooting in 4x3 SD and still getting bookings. So should any of us even be shooting HD today? Just saying :)

[Clive McLaughlin]

Originally Posted by Peter Rush

I'm just about sold on this camera but I'm loathe to order from Hong Kong as I'm in the middle of trying to get a Samyang lens repaired under warranty from Onestopdigital (Hong Kong based), and it's proving a bit of a nightmare! Does this mean the EU version of the A7s will be locked down to 29.9 seconds as per the 5d?

Clive can you confirm the camera has zoom focus assist while recording?

Cheers

Pete

Yep, I hadn't realised until a friend of mine who owns an A6000 showed me. Its a super feature along with the focus peaking and zebras.

The 5D mk4 may turn out to have 4k, but will it have a better codec, improved dynamic range, zero moire and aliasing, focus peaking, zebras etc etc...?

I don't think its worth waiting around for Canon if anyones debating it. At the very least, they have dropped the ball in being so far behind the competition even if it emerges the 5D4 will have 4k which isn't a certainty.

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Michael Eggerton

I don't think its worth waiting around for Canon if anyones debating it. At the very least, they have dropped the ball in being so far behind the competition even if it emerges the 5D4 will have 4k which isn't a certainty.

I agree, although Photokina will be interesting with the 7D2. However, I think I'm going to pick up a GH4. I don't need the low light performance as much nowadays for corporates (only have 2 more weddings booked - yay!) and someone offered me £1380 for one of my 5D3s (only 1635 shutter accusations!), so it's more or a less a straight swap by the time I've bought an extra battery or two. Of course glass is another matter....

[Nicholas de Kock]

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

I agree, although Photokina will be interesting with the 7D2

Why is everyone so psyched about the 7D2? The 7D sucks! Canon isn't in the business of producing quality DSLRs for video. What gives people the idea that the 7D2 will be better if the 5D3 which is a higher model also sucks for video? My prediction is the 7D2 will be nothing special.

[Dave Partington]

Originally Posted by Nicholas de Kock

Why is everyone so psyched about the 7D2? The 7D sucks! Canon isn't in the business of producing quality DSLRs for video. What gives people the idea that the 7D2 will be better if the 5D3 which is a higher model also sucks for video? My prediction is the 7D2 will be nothing special.

I'm not psyched up at all. The 7D2 should show the direction Canon is heading in terms of video and it's also the closest we have to the S35 frame size.

The 7D sucks because relatively speaking, because it's so old now. When it was released it was considered by many be to a really serious wedding video camera (audio limitations aside). We used one for a couple of years from the back of the isle to take advantage of the crop factor. It's easy to forget where we all were just 2 or 3 years ago.

If the 7D2 has 4K and is a 1:1 pixel ration then it means that Canon has got serious again. If it's 4K and not 1:1 pixel mapping then think it will be time to drop Canon completely. That is why I think the 7D2 will be a very interesting body to watch. Add to that, we should see how Canon have (or have not) developed new sensor technology etc.

Also, if the 7D2 includes / excludes video features such as focus peaking and zebras that will also tell us a lot. Canon are very aware of the market place but have so far chosen to take us down the cinema line route. Will they continue that way and be willing to sacrifice the low end 4K video DSLR market, which they once owned, to the likes of Sony and Panasonic? I think yes in terms of serious users, but I also think the Rebel line will get 4K soon for the soccer moms!

Having a larger sensor means the 7D2 in 4K mode could easily be better than the GH4 in low light. Would that be so terrible?

My gut tells me that the 7D2 won't get all these goodies because it would have a major impact on the (now ageing) 1Dc, but I'm going to look on with interest regardless.

What we all need is competition in the market place so that which ever way we choose to go, the technology is constantly being pushed forward. When one company owns the market things stagnate.

[Noa Put]

Having a larger sensor means the 7D2 in 4K mode could easily be better than the GH4 in low light. Would that be so terrible?

Just wait until the GH5 comes out, I bet it will be even better then the a7s in low light and you probably will regret not to have waited for that one. There always will be something better at the horizon, I still remember from not that long ago shooting at 6db of gain and getting frustrated about all the noise in my xh-a1 footage, I still see the annoyed expressions on the guests faces when I close my eyes because of my on camera light that was blinding their view.

If I would have been given a GH4 or a AX100 back then I thought I had died and gone to heaven, we all have become very spoiled there days. :)

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Dave Partington

If the 7D2 has 4K and is a 1:1 pixel ration then it means that Canon has got serious again. If it's 4K and not 1:1 pixel mapping then think it will be time to drop Canon completely.

Well, it's not going to have that so you might as well start preparing.

[Clive McLaughlin]

I still feel very much that the 4k lovers are getting swept along on the excitement tide. I won't pretend that the benefits aren't very noticeable, but you have to be honest with yourself and your needs.

For me, before the announcement of the GH4 or A7s, if I was asked where I wanted improvement, my answer would have been low light, codec, moire, focus peaking, dynamic range, all before I would have said 'I wish my footage from the 6D was sharper.

So, knowing my needs it was an easy decision for me.

I still feel the GH4 is 4k rushed into a setup which cuts corners. 4k is 4k which is great, but I'm glad Sony opted to push the boundaries of codec, low light, dynamic range rather than capitalising on the consumer frenzy of 4k.

Sure, soon enough there will be a product that ticks all the boxes, but the A7s gives me all I need right now IMO.

[Robert Benda]

From what I see, the main appeal would be the low light of the A7s, because, while I don't need ISO 150,000 or whatever, a clean ISO 6400 or 12,800 would be great to have. I also would like an aisle camera at 4K so I can shoot Wider than usual, but use the one camera and be able to crop down to a medium shot with no loss.

However, knowing it will only record 4K to an external recorder really means, why bother with that for now? I can buy a 2nd camera for cheaper than I can a Shogun.

And the low light isn't necessary for me, yet.

So, while I'm tempted by the GH4 and more by the Sony A7s, I'm fine waiting another year and seeing how things shake out so I can get full value when I make the change, and whether that change is just to 4K capable, or if I'll be leaving Canon entirely.

Meantime, I can save some extra cash to be ready.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Clive McLaughlin

I still feel very much that the 4k lovers are getting swept along on the excitement tide. I won't pretend that the benefits aren't very noticeable, but you have to be honest with yourself and your needs.

I see more of these kind of reactions from people that don't shoot with a 4k camera and they all seem to feel the need to justify their 1080p camera which they either have or just bought and I don't understand why that is.

I think Panasonic did not cut any corners, they made a smart decision reusing the gh3 body and making it a better camera while keeping production cost down, for existing gh users that meant being able to re-use all of your accessories. I shoot weddings every week all through the season in often demanding situations and since I can shoot and show candlelit dinnerparties in the same way I can see it with my own eyes that is all I need. Would I like to have some better low light capabilities? ofcourse, but since the camera can cope with any situation I have run into now it works for my particular needs.

The cropping factor of 4K however is an addition that, as long as I can edit in a 1080p timeline which I expect to be another few years, gives me a hugh advantage as solo shooter, I need a camera that will give me the opportunity to crop out framing mistakes or give me extra angles that I can choose as I please without any visual quality loss, the a7s can do that to with a appropriate recorder but at almost 3 times the cost of a gh4 also adding to the size of the camera as you need to attach that recorder somewhere.

So that you know, I didn't get 4K camera's because I love the 4K logo on the camera only, though it looks cool, and I didn't buy a second 4K camera out of excitement. My money is hard earned and I need to be sure every cent spend is a worthwhile investment. For me at least "4K" isn't just a status symbol, 4K just made my work better as I"m able to correct framing errors and get extra cameraangles on unmanned camera's as a solo shooter and that all in post.

I'd love to have a low light full frame cam like the a7s but it won't improve my work, it will only make shooting in very dark venues much easier but not up to a point that there will be a significant difference with my gh4 as I want to expose in a way I can see with my own eyes and that is what the gh4 and also the ax100 currently can do for me.

[Dave Partington]

Sorry if I missed this along the way, but as I understand it the European G4s are time limited to 29.59. Are the GH4s sold in the USA time limited or not?

Is it based on the frame rates or locations of sale?

[Peter Rush]

Same here regarding the EU time limit for the A7s - anyone have the answer?

According to this review it's still crippled: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53911011

Pete

[Noa Put]

As far as I know all dslr's sold in the eu have that limit build in, it needs to be a videocamera, like the ax100 to have that removed. Those timelimits are a big pain in the *** when shooting ceremonies.

[Peter Rush]

Now I'm confused as this report states that all A7s regardless of region are crippled to 29 minute recording!

http://www.newsshooter.com/2014/06/2...-world-camera/

Apparently EU tax if DSLRs were classified as camcorders rather than still cameras is 5.4% which would mean about an extra £100 for the A7s - I'd be happy to pay that much more for unlimited recording

Having said that I wouldn't be using it for ceremonies/speeches so it may be no biggie :)

Pete