New Sony A7s to shoot 4K video

Noa Put · July 20th, 2014, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

Crazy....really really crazy numbers here...

My wife once had one of those very cheap handicams that could do 200x zoom...:)
From what I have seen 80.000 iso seems usable, once above that the noise becomes very noticeable but just the fact that it can is quite amazing. I have seen my ax100 goes to 33db of gain but iit looks like 24db of gain on my cx730, numbers don't always say all about sensitivity it appears as you probably have to take sensorsize into consideration as well.

Quote:

This is not a very flattering video for the Sony A7s

agree, I have seen beautiful looking demos made for/by Sony but the "a7s looks" video you linked to doesn't even come close, in fact if that video was a representation of what the camera could do I wouldn't buy it at half the price, the a7s seems like a camera that requires some experience to get the most out of it but as shown before it can deliver if operated by the right persons.

Dan Carter · July 20th, 2014, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thames

This is not a very flattering video for the Sony A7s.....

Agreed. Looking forward to more samples of something besides S-Log. More of what the camera can do without intense color correction and grading.

Peter Siamidis · July 20th, 2014, 01:40 PM

Do you guys think the A7s could work as a deep dof run&gun type video camera in full auto? So like lock it at F8, put a native aps-c lens on there, set it to full auto and go? Given it's great sensor in low light I figure maybe that means it's auto focus in video could be more accurate than on other camera gear, so I could dual purpose it as a full frame shallow dof bokeh low light monster when needed but also use it for times when I need deep dof full auto good low light video performance. I wonder if this camera could be a master of both (for video, not stills).

Joe Holt · July 20th, 2014, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Thames

This is not a very flattering video for the Sony A7s..... I'm considering a purchase but after seeing this I'm going to wait to see if someone comes up with a better video displaying the full attributes of this camera.

I too wouldn't buy it based on this video but if you watch it in HD and stop it to gaze at various frames, the details in that low light footage is pretty amazing. To my eye, it looks like it definitely needs some grading but the detail is there. The darker scenes just need to have the shadows brought up and some chroma added back in. In the right hands, the A7S is an amazing camera. The whole "its a poor carpenter who blames his hammer," comes to mind but I believe this camera will prove to be a pretty decent hammer (not literally) for the cost of admission. I know I'm trying to justify buying one.

Noa Put · July 20th, 2014, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Siamidis

I wonder if this camera could be a master of both (for video, not stills).

dslr and full auto don't go together, especially not full frame camera's, I highly doubt the autofcus to be very efficient in dark environments. This is not a run and gun camera, focus is always tricky on a full frame camera. If you want deep dof and good auto functionality, sort of a set and forget camera then get a videocamera with a smaller sensor.

Ade Towell · July 20th, 2014, 02:59 PM

Noa is right the A7s is not at its best for run n gun auto mode, but you can stop it down pretty far in low light with high iso and still have a clean image, you don't need to film full frame either, it has an aps-c mode too.
This was filmed in asp-c mode with full auto

this is not my footage and it definitely has some issues but here's what the shooter said

"Our first shoot with the Sony A7S. Shot 1080p60 1/60th shutter with Picture Profile 7 (Slog2), with Color Mode changed to Cinema.

Graded in Premiere Pro CC using color curves and saturation, the same setting applied to all clips. The goal was to see how well the A7S handled skintones under very challenging, changing lighting conditions: low light, multicolor spots, etc. NR was only used on the first clip (very very low light).

Shot handheld using the Sony SEL18-200mm APS-C lens (FS700 kit lens), AUTO ISO, AWB, AF (center spot focus area), IS, manual zoom, built in mics. With this lens and settings, the A7S makes an excellent low-light live/event camera."

Noa Put · July 20th, 2014, 03:15 PM

Those subjects he followed are well lit but like Peter asked for "deep dof full auto good low light video performance" is asking a bit too much from any camera, even smaller sensor ones. I at least would never trust a dslr in autofocus or any other tracking mode when the lights are low.

Peter Siamidis · July 20th, 2014, 05:00 PM

I guess I should have elaborated on what I meant by "low light", I meant more indoor type lighting and not a moonlight type situation. In my mind outdoors is good light, indoors is low light, and night shots are no light. My bad, I should have been more clear on that.

That video Ade linked is really interesting and is actually what I had in mind, going with aps-c lens to get slightly deeper dof, then keep the camera stopped down to f8-ish to get dof even deeper and hope the sensor can still scoop up enough light to have af work for video while tracking people. This is more for a backup cam really as I use the AX100 for everything and need a backup in case it happened to break on location. I thought of just getting another AX100 as a backup, but have been contemplating an A7s. My theory was that it could work as a full auto run&gun backup camera with indoor lighting if I used it with an aps-c lens and at f8, but then as a bonus I'd have an amazing full frame camera that I could use at f1.4 if I wanted to for other work. I wasn't sure how well the af would perform on it, but after seeing the above video it makes me think it might just work since my filming and lighting situations aren't as challenging as that fashion show video. Thanks a bunch for that link!

Michael Thames · July 21st, 2014, 12:44 PM

Here is another video by this guy. Good lord! Everything looks bad here. I can barely discern a difference. I think he screwed up on his compression settings or something...... these cameras can't be this bad! If I had a choice though I'd go with the 5D3.

Michael Stevenson · August 5th, 2014, 06:40 PM

I can't wait to get mine with the Atomos Shogun!

Kajito Nagib · September 9th, 2014, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ade Towell

Noa is right the A7s is not at its best for run n gun "

I don't think so either I mentioned this is my mini review of the A7s which can be seen on my website.
The camera shines on a tripod or monopod but once handheld you have to be careful on how you pan and move with the camera.

Michael Stevenson · September 9th, 2014, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kajito Nagib

I don't think so either I mentioned this is my mini review of the A7s which can be seen on my website.
The camera shines on a tripod or monopod but once handheld you have to be careful on how you pan and move with the camera.

Really? I beg to differ. And if you shoot in 60P NO rolling shutter.

D.J. Ammons · September 9th, 2014, 05:40 PM

Michael,

Why do you say there will be no rolling shutter in 60p? The camera does not have a global shutter so no matter what mode you are shooting in my understanding is that you are going to get that lovely rolling shutter skew if you move the camera very much.

Philip Bloom makes it clear in his review of the A7s that is has pretty bad skewing with the rolling shutter and I think he would have mentioned if shooting 60p magically solved that.

Craig Marshall · September 9th, 2014, 05:44 PM

The Bloom review was a bit of a shocker. Interesting to note he preferred the APS-C format option with FF lenses connected via the Metabones Speed Booster and that's the way I would use it too.

Michael Stevenson · September 9th, 2014, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.J. Ammons

Michael,

Why do you say there will be no rolling shutter in 60p? The camera does not have a global shutter so no matter what mode you are shooting in my understanding is that you are going to get that lovely rolling shutter skew if you move the camera very much.

Philip Bloom makes it clear in his review of the A7s that is has pretty bad skewing with the rolling shutter and I think he would have mentioned if shooting 60p magically solved that.

Do you see it in my sample clips? I'm hand holding it and doing some whip pans here. I'm not saying it's not there in every case but I really don't shoot zoomed in and whip the camera horizontally.

July 20th, 2014, 01:40 PM	#108
Peter Siamidis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA Posts: 148	Re: New Sony A7s to shoot 4K video Do you guys think the A7s could work as a deep dof run&gun type video camera in full auto? So like lock it at F8, put a native aps-c lens on there, set it to full auto and go? Given it's great sensor in low light I figure maybe that means it's auto focus in video could be more accurate than on other camera gear, so I could dual purpose it as a full frame shallow dof bokeh low light monster when needed but also use it for times when I need deep dof full auto good low light video performance. I wonder if this camera could be a master of both (for video, not stills).

July 20th, 2014, 02:59 PM	#111
Ade Towell Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: nottingham, uk Posts: 54	Re: New Sony A7s to shoot 4K video Noa is right the A7s is not at its best for run n gun auto mode, but you can stop it down pretty far in low light with high iso and still have a clean image, you don't need to film full frame either, it has an aps-c mode too. This was filmed in asp-c mode with full auto Supper Club Hollywood \| Fashion Show - YouTube this is not my footage and it definitely has some issues but here's what the shooter said "Our first shoot with the Sony A7S. Shot 1080p60 1/60th shutter with Picture Profile 7 (Slog2), with Color Mode changed to Cinema. Graded in Premiere Pro CC using color curves and saturation, the same setting applied to all clips. The goal was to see how well the A7S handled skintones under very challenging, changing lighting conditions: low light, multicolor spots, etc. NR was only used on the first clip (very very low light). Shot handheld using the Sony SEL18-200mm APS-C lens (FS700 kit lens), AUTO ISO, AWB, AF (center spot focus area), IS, manual zoom, built in mics. With this lens and settings, the A7S makes an excellent low-light live/event camera."

July 20th, 2014, 03:15 PM	#112
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: New Sony A7s to shoot 4K video Those subjects he followed are well lit but like Peter asked for "deep dof full auto good low light video performance" is asking a bit too much from any camera, even smaller sensor ones. I at least would never trust a dslr in autofocus or any other tracking mode when the lights are low.

July 20th, 2014, 05:00 PM	#113
Peter Siamidis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA Posts: 148	Re: New Sony A7s to shoot 4K video I guess I should have elaborated on what I meant by "low light", I meant more indoor type lighting and not a moonlight type situation. In my mind outdoors is good light, indoors is low light, and night shots are no light. My bad, I should have been more clear on that. That video Ade linked is really interesting and is actually what I had in mind, going with aps-c lens to get slightly deeper dof, then keep the camera stopped down to f8-ish to get dof even deeper and hope the sensor can still scoop up enough light to have af work for video while tracking people. This is more for a backup cam really as I use the AX100 for everything and need a backup in case it happened to break on location. I thought of just getting another AX100 as a backup, but have been contemplating an A7s. My theory was that it could work as a full auto run&gun backup camera with indoor lighting if I used it with an aps-c lens and at f8, but then as a bonus I'd have an amazing full frame camera that I could use at f1.4 if I wanted to for other work. I wasn't sure how well the af would perform on it, but after seeing the above video it makes me think it might just work since my filming and lighting situations aren't as challenging as that fashion show video. Thanks a bunch for that link!

July 21st, 2014, 12:44 PM	#114
Michael Thames Major Player Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Santa Fe, NM USA Posts: 396	Re: New Sony A7s to shoot 4K video Here is another video by this guy. Good lord! Everything looks bad here. I can barely discern a difference. I think he screwed up on his compression settings or something...... these cameras can't be this bad! If I had a choice though I'd go with the 5D3. EOSHD Shootout - SONY A7S + 5D Mark III raw + Panasonic GH4 + Blackmagic Pocket + FS100 + A7R + A6000 on Vimeo

August 5th, 2014, 06:40 PM	#115
Michael Stevenson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Lynnwood, WA Posts: 98	Re: New Sony A7s to shoot 4K video I can't wait to get mine with the Atomos Shogun! SONY A7s FULL HD DEMO Clip - YouTube

September 9th, 2014, 05:40 PM	#118
D.J. Ammons Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 506	Re: New Sony A7s to shoot 4K video Michael, Why do you say there will be no rolling shutter in 60p? The camera does not have a global shutter so no matter what mode you are shooting in my understanding is that you are going to get that lovely rolling shutter skew if you move the camera very much. Philip Bloom makes it clear in his review of the A7s that is has pretty bad skewing with the rolling shutter and I think he would have mentioned if shooting 60p magically solved that.

September 9th, 2014, 05:44 PM	#119
Craig Marshall Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Blue Mountains, Australia Posts: 170	Re: New Sony A7s to shoot 4K video The Bloom review was a bit of a shocker. Interesting to note he preferred the APS-C format option with FF lenses connected via the Metabones Speed Booster and that's the way I would use it too.