The Sony a7IV and AX700 dilemma at DVinfo.net

John Nantz · December 22nd, 2023, 10:41 PM

Been using the AX700 for a few years now and it’s menu system is easy to work with. However, since Covid made its debut at the beginning of 2020, due to isolation, a change in performances (that I had been shooting), and changes in family situations (kids growing up and adults getting older), it has mostly sat somewhat unused. Picked up the a7IV last winter to capture some family photos as a partial justification but even that hasn’t materialized.

The a7 is my first digital camera, except for the iPhone (which gets used all the time), and frankly, the main reason for non-use is due to the “very deep” a7 menu system. There are so many settings that it's mind boggling. The other main reasons for lack of use are:

1. There are a number of relatively basic settings, but if one includes everything, there are nearly 300 possibilities. The time it takes to go through everything is more time than is available. The iPhone is good enough, and fast for most uses, so it gets used a lot.

2. The other problem is, if the time between uses is too long, one can forget about the nuance settings. “The devil is in the details”. The nice thing is that basic “Presets” can get one in the ballpark, but even coming up with what Preset(s) to use is difficult.

3. It would be really nice to have a few presets that can help coordinate (somewhat) a photo or video clip with the AX700.

4. The other major reason for not using either the cam or the a7 is a serious lack of time (realize nobody can help with that).

Bottom line: At this point, even one Preset would be helpful, something that would be good for a “point-and-shoot” situation with minimal fine tuning, if any. Hopefully something that would compete, even a little bit, with an iPhone (not take a too long to set up). For the next several months any pictures or video footage would be indoors with typical house lighting.

A basic Preset setting that might coordinate somewhat (I didn’t say ‘match’) with the AX700 would be helpful: 24p, 8-bit, Røde on-board mic, color mode to not require serious editing, …..etc. At least something that I 'can play with'.

Really, just want to start using the a7 and maybe try and incorporate some footage into the 700 [timeline] and get used to it, if that makes any sense.

Also, don’t plan to use it as a B-roll cam, have the AX53 that can be used.

Would really appreciate some suggestions to get out of this slump.
-= Thanks for any help =-

(P.S.: by the way, next up, need a newer computer, but that’s for later).

Christopher Young · December 25th, 2023, 03:06 AM

Not having used the AX700 but having owned a Z90 which appears to have virtually the same menu as the AX700 I would suggest you could try the following. It may work for you. It for me worked with the Z90 and the A7iv with minimal matching required afterward.

Set both cameras to HLG3 in their respective HLG menus. Why I suggest HLG3 is because the maximum video output level value of each differs as follows: In HLG they are, [HLG1]: approx. 87%, [HLG2]: approx. 95%, [HLG3]: approx. 100%. HLG 3 is also the quietest.

Now, if you want a straight out of camera 709 look with minimal grading, select ITU 709 color mode. There are only two choices, [BT.2020] and [709] that can be selected under [COLOR MODE].

The HLG3 setting will give you the greatest dynamic range, outside S-LOG with the least noise, and the ability to work at the lowest ISO levels, like ISO 125 if you have plenty of light. And if you have to gain up on the AX700, if it's like the Z90, it appears to be quieter than any of the other HLGs and PPs available.

If you use an NLE like Resolve, you can just shoot 2020 color mode on both cameras and then do a CST (color space transform) on the footage in Resolve either by setting up a project that will CST from 2020 to 709 or by applying a CST node on the two lots of footage within Resolve and setting those nodes to transform from 2020 to 709. This does a mathematically correct color space transformation from the 2020 color space to the 709 display color space and works very well.

If it's not super mission-critical stuff, seriously, I find just shooting HLG3 with color mode set to 709 gives you a good overall decent dynamic range good-looking result with the minimum of work and heartache. As always, just protect the critical highlights in your footage. If most of your shooting is going to be indoors, as you say, this really should pose too much of a problem.

Again for quick family stuff and if I'm not matching cameras, and I am using the A7iv, I quite often shoot with PP OFF just using the Standard Scene File and am very often surprised at just how good the result is out of the A7iv. Exposed correctly, I find in 99% of cases I don't have to touch the footage. In CineD's test the A7iv has displayed the greatest dynamic range of the A7 series, and that's including the A7Siii and the A1. The A7iv's Standard Scene File with that camera's dynamic range punches well above its weight.

Check out this video from Gerald at around 5:58 re HLG3. This relates to the A7iii, which I used to use and can confirm that though this covers the A7iii it applies almost verbatim to the A7iv, and in my experience comes very close to the results on the Z90 using HLG3. White balances being the biggest variables between cameras.

Chris Young

And this video where Jason is using HLG2 and 709. It will give you an idea of the possibilities.

Pete Cofrancesco · December 25th, 2023, 10:22 AM

Not sure exactly what your asking.

I purchased the A7IV a year ago. I got it mainly for event work that can be dark and is hand held. Small form factor, light weight and low light performance come in handy. The ability to take broll photos and video at events lets me leave my video dedicated cameras in place.

Beyond that I don't use it much for non work related events. The phone is always on me is easier to use and I don't have to worry about it getting damaged, stolen, etc.

I agree the camera is complex and understand how to get the most out of it isn't easy. I don't find the presets that useful. Every time I come back to the camera after a long break I have re learn how it operates.

John Nantz · December 26th, 2023, 12:30 AM

Hey guys, I’m back, it’s late, and want to get a little something out.
First off, thank you for the comments!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

Not sure exactly what your asking.

With regard to Pete’s question: ….
Let me try to re-phrase it and see if this helps. If it could be shortened, what about something like this:
“What would be some good photo & video Presets for the a7, that would also work/interplay with the 700?
(1) Presets that would allow the camera and camcorder to ‘play together’ with a minimal amount of adjustment changes in shooting mode (especially the ‘drill-down-in-the-menu’ ones), and,
(2) a minimal amount of post editing of timeline footage (like color grading).

A setup with the two cams (a7 photo & video with the 700 video) would be my highest priority in the beginning, before diving into the abyss of the deeper menu settings for other uses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

I purchased the A7IV a year ago. I got it mainly for event work that can be dark and is hand held. Small form factor, light weight and low light performance come in handy. The ability to take broll photos and video at events lets me leave my video dedicated cameras in place.

Seems like a good plan, especially if it doesn't need adjusting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

Beyond that I don't use it much for non work related events. The phone is always on me is easier to use and I don't have to worry about it getting damaged, stolen, etc.

The phone is very handy, and they've become so much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

I agree the camera is complex and understand how to get the most out of it isn't easy. I don't find the presets that useful. Every time I come back to the camera after a long break I have re learn how it operates.

You hit the preverbal "problem nail on the head"!!!
This has really been my problem, even with just getting started.
If I can once get started, the hope is to get more used to using it.

John Nantz · December 27th, 2023, 11:10 PM

Hi Chris,

Thank you for that very useful post; very well presented. The first video really helped to explain what was happening, much easier for me to understand than a wordy discussion. However, after viewing it, the 'wordy description' makes a lot of sense.

It's been almost a year since I started trying to figure out how to set the camera and cam up, and starting with the a7, after several on again, off again, stints, the process has just sat fallow (farmer terminology). I really, really, relate to Pete (only Pete made it further along than I did!).

Really want to make some progress with settings, hence the post. Attached is a *.pdf spreadsheet of where I left off last spring. Perhaps you can look it over and fill in some blanks like what you use, or what you think would be a suggestion. As can be seen, I never got over to the 700 settings!

It would sure be nice if Sony had a few downloads one could use for getting started, like for simple setting w/ low key lighting, outdoor lighting with a bit of action, say. They did so much with setting adjustments in the past few years, that to go one step further would probably help with sales. The early years had great improvements going from tape, B&W LCDs, to HDDs, and then digital, and now the changes are more application-like.

For myself, the workload 'light at the end of the tunnel' probably isn't until spring, but it would be nice to grab some 'footage' from time to time and see how it goes. What do you think?

I'm sure there are others in this situation.
I talked to a guy in the camera shop a year ago and he sold his a7 'cuz he couldn't even take pictures with it! Too complicated, he said. Mating it with a camcorder is a bit more difficult, though.

December 22nd, 2023, 10:41 PM	#1
John Nantz Trustee Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 1,254	The Sony a7IV and AX700 dilemma Been using the AX700 for a few years now and it’s menu system is easy to work with. However, since Covid made its debut at the beginning of 2020, due to isolation, a change in performances (that I had been shooting), and changes in family situations (kids growing up and adults getting older), it has mostly sat somewhat unused. Picked up the a7IV last winter to capture some family photos as a partial justification but even that hasn’t materialized. The a7 is my first digital camera, except for the iPhone (which gets used all the time), and frankly, the main reason for non-use is due to the “very deep” a7 menu system. There are so many settings that it's mind boggling. The other main reasons for lack of use are: 1. There are a number of relatively basic settings, but if one includes everything, there are nearly 300 possibilities. The time it takes to go through everything is more time than is available. The iPhone is good enough, and fast for most uses, so it gets used a lot. 2. The other problem is, if the time between uses is too long, one can forget about the nuance settings. “The devil is in the details”. The nice thing is that basic “Presets” can get one in the ballpark, but even coming up with what Preset(s) to use is difficult. 3. It would be really nice to have a few presets that can help coordinate (somewhat) a photo or video clip with the AX700. 4. The other major reason for not using either the cam or the a7 is a serious lack of time (realize nobody can help with that). Bottom line: At this point, even one Preset would be helpful, something that would be good for a “point-and-shoot” situation with minimal fine tuning, if any. Hopefully something that would compete, even a little bit, with an iPhone (not take a too long to set up). For the next several months any pictures or video footage would be indoors with typical house lighting. A basic Preset setting that might coordinate somewhat (I didn’t say ‘match’) with the AX700 would be helpful: 24p, 8-bit, Røde on-board mic, color mode to not require serious editing, …..etc. At least something that I 'can play with'. Really, just want to start using the a7 and maybe try and incorporate some footage into the 700 [timeline] and get used to it, if that makes any sense. Also, don’t plan to use it as a B-roll cam, have the AX53 that can be used. Would really appreciate some suggestions to get out of this slump. -= Thanks for any help =- (P.S.: by the way, next up, need a newer computer, but that’s for later). Attached Thumbnails Last edited by John Nantz; December 23rd, 2023 at 10:44 AM. Reason: added [timeline]

December 25th, 2023, 03:06 AM	#2
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,568	Re: The Sony a7IV and AX700 dilemma Not having used the AX700 but having owned a Z90 which appears to have virtually the same menu as the AX700 I would suggest you could try the following. It may work for you. It for me worked with the Z90 and the A7iv with minimal matching required afterward. Set both cameras to HLG3 in their respective HLG menus. Why I suggest HLG3 is because the maximum video output level value of each differs as follows: In HLG they are, [HLG1]: approx. 87%, [HLG2]: approx. 95%, [HLG3]: approx. 100%. HLG 3 is also the quietest. Now, if you want a straight out of camera 709 look with minimal grading, select ITU 709 color mode. There are only two choices, [BT.2020] and [709] that can be selected under [COLOR MODE]. The HLG3 setting will give you the greatest dynamic range, outside S-LOG with the least noise, and the ability to work at the lowest ISO levels, like ISO 125 if you have plenty of light. And if you have to gain up on the AX700, if it's like the Z90, it appears to be quieter than any of the other HLGs and PPs available. If you use an NLE like Resolve, you can just shoot 2020 color mode on both cameras and then do a CST (color space transform) on the footage in Resolve either by setting up a project that will CST from 2020 to 709 or by applying a CST node on the two lots of footage within Resolve and setting those nodes to transform from 2020 to 709. This does a mathematically correct color space transformation from the 2020 color space to the 709 display color space and works very well. If it's not super mission-critical stuff, seriously, I find just shooting HLG3 with color mode set to 709 gives you a good overall decent dynamic range good-looking result with the minimum of work and heartache. As always, just protect the critical highlights in your footage. If most of your shooting is going to be indoors, as you say, this really should pose too much of a problem. Again for quick family stuff and if I'm not matching cameras, and I am using the A7iv, I quite often shoot with PP OFF just using the Standard Scene File and am very often surprised at just how good the result is out of the A7iv. Exposed correctly, I find in 99% of cases I don't have to touch the footage. In CineD's test the A7iv has displayed the greatest dynamic range of the A7 series, and that's including the A7Siii and the A1. The A7iv's Standard Scene File with that camera's dynamic range punches well above its weight. Check out this video from Gerald at around 5:58 re HLG3. This relates to the A7iii, which I used to use and can confirm that though this covers the A7iii it applies almost verbatim to the A7iv, and in my experience comes very close to the results on the Z90 using HLG3. White balances being the biggest variables between cameras. Chris Young Sony Picture Profiles & Dynamic Range Guide (Cine vs S-Log vs HLG) - YouTube And this video where Jason is using HLG2 and 709. It will give you an idea of the possibilities. How I Expose & Color Grade Sony Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG) - My FAVORITE a7III a7RIII Picture Profile! - YouTube

December 25th, 2023, 10:22 AM	#3
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	Re: The Sony a7IV and AX700 dilemma Not sure exactly what your asking. I purchased the A7IV a year ago. I got it mainly for event work that can be dark and is hand held. Small form factor, light weight and low light performance come in handy. The ability to take broll photos and video at events lets me leave my video dedicated cameras in place. Beyond that I don't use it much for non work related events. The phone is always on me is easier to use and I don't have to worry about it getting damaged, stolen, etc. I agree the camera is complex and understand how to get the most out of it isn't easy. I don't find the presets that useful. Every time I come back to the camera after a long break I have re learn how it operates.