Sony Z90 questions

[Mike Meyerson]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

HDMI is locked down to 8bit only. However, you wil get double the chroma resolution over internal 4:2:0. It outputs 4:2:2.

You can record internally and over HDMI at the same time but you will lose video on your camera LCD screen. You will see all the camera conditions and information but no live video....but now you are watching your external recorder.

In my opinion, the Z90/NX80 blows that Canon out of the water. The Z90/NX80 has a FAR better sensor and much more 4k resolving power. I have seen comparisons between them and that Canon looks like "OK" 1080p...not even 4k looking at all.

Thanks Cliff. Honestly, I thought the image quality out of the xf400 was decent (need to use the wide DR profile)...I just am blown away by the fact that there's no iris control on the camera (need to go into a menu to adjust).

[Simon Denny]

Thanks Doug,

Yeah, looks like two Sony NP-FV100A's then for a full day..

Cheers, Simon

[John Nantz]

Simon - With regard to this

Originally Posted by Simon Denny

Can I have the LCD and View Finder active at the same time.

I was talking to an Atomos person a few weeks ago and he said that they will be coming out with, if I remember the size correctly, a 5-inch Ninja ?Flame? [if I got that right too]. 1,500 nits!

I've had the AX100 and got the AX700 with a JuicedLink pre and a recorder so thinking this might be an accessory to consider. Running a 7-inch Ninja on these cams would make it a bit top heavy especially with a couple of the Sony NPF-970 batteries so a 5-inch version may be do-able. Might be handy for the JVC LS300 also.

[Doug Jensen]

Why bother with either one? What do you hope to gain? You're just going to take a great little run & gun camera and junk it up with a bunch of unnecessary acceessories that will make it harder to shoot and won't add anything to the image quality. Spend the money on a better tripod, lighting, audio, or something else that will make an actual visual difference if you want to make better videos. That my 2 cents.

[Simon Denny]

Thanks John.

Yeah, the reason I was asking about both the LCD and viewfinder being on at the same time was: if looking through the view finder, could one use the touch screen to pull focus from one person/object to another, I thought that would be a great feature.
Now I think about this, it would not be possible.

[Christopher Young]

I tend to agree with Doug. Why bother hanging a great lump of recorder onto what's a pretty competent little camera when in most cases you gain very little. Especially if you are creating MP4s for the web etc. I found one of Max Yuryev's latest videos quite interesting. Not super technical but but he painted a couple of common enough scenarios that many of us could identify with when shooting. Sure it's not an Z90 in his example but there is a lesson here I think. He compared an FS5 Mk II's 12-bit ProRes RAW output with the FS5's internal 8-bit 4k 420. Really when you look at the results I have to ask you is it really worth it in 95% of cases?

Chris Younng

[Simon Denny]

What I think is funny for me at this time is, I'm going back to a video camera and not another DSLR or mirrorless system. Over the years I've had way to many cameras and all had their use however nothing beats a rig/camera that's is purpose built for video capture, my favourite camera I owned was my beloved Sony PMW500, man we shot some stuff together, my least favourite experience has been moving into small mirrorless equipment and getting this to work properly for me? The last few years I sold everything as I'm hired more as a camera op these days rather than running production. I did however grab my self a couple of Fujifilm cameras and use these for talking heads and the odd doco. Technology has changed a lot and this little Z90 has all I need for now.

I just wanted to add, the features the Z90 has is amazing for its price point, my PMW500 that cost body only 35k had nowhere near the ability as the Z90 has, amazing.

[Doug Jensen]

Originally Posted by Christopher Young

He compared an FS5 Mk II's 12-bit ProRes RAW output with the FS5's internal 8-bit 4k 420. Really when you look at the results I have to ask you is it really worth it in 95% of cases? Chris Younng

I don't know who Max is, but I already posted tests with my FS5 more than two years ago that came to that conclusion:

Sony PXW-FS5: Comparison of Internal Recording vs. RAW output to Odyssey 7Q+ (PART 1) on Vimeo

Sony PXW-FS5: Comparison of Internal Recording vs. RAW, SDI and HDMI output to Odyssey 7Q+ (PART 2) on Vimeo

[John Nantz]

Doug -

Simon said back in post #1:

Originally Posted by Simon Denny

I shoot a lot of action sport and need to follow/track players, cars etc...
and ...
If anyone has the answers to this I really appreciate any feed back.

I can relate to that.
Shooting moving 'stuff' outside in daylight, especially fast moving stuff and especially in bright daylight with the only two viewing options being the viewfinder or the LCD screen while simultaneously trying to manage camera controls is a challenge.

The one thing I really like about the AX700 over the AX100 was the large viewfinder eyecup but unfortunately, while very helpful it presents a problem when changing controls unless everything can be done by brail, which I can't. Have a LCD screen shade and even when wearing a cap to help shade it to see, it still isn't the greatest.

In the old days the photographer would have a black cape he'd put over the camera and himself to see what he was shooting and how to frame. Not sure I want to go there, hence, one solution I've been thinking of is the Atomos Ninja Flame with it's 1,500 nit screen, and possibly a shade on it too. At 47º N the summer sun can get quite bright, add to that a white gel coat and sparkling water, it's hard on the eyes.

I can relate to what Simon indicates he is dealing with so that's the rational for the suggestion.

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

Why bother with either one? What do you hope to gain? You're just going to take a great little run & gun camera and junk it up with a bunch of unnecessary acceessories that will make it harder to shoot and won't add anything to the image quality.

In my book, part of "image quality" is getting the subject(s) framed properly and with action shots that's a moving target. If an external screen that's bright enough to see under bright light conditions helps, that doesn't make it unnecessary, but it's a tradeoff. It's a personal call where one has to weigh the difficulty with whatever is added on with the benefit.

Note that the cam has a shoe for adding stuff on and Sony has a long list of accessories they like to sell.

I'm open for suggestions about how to shoot action video in adverse bright light conditions.

[Doug Jensen]

John, I thought you were suggesting the Atomos for use as an external recorder. It never even crossed my mind that you were suggesting it as a substitute for a viewfinder. The best way, and only way, to shoot action video in bright (or any other) conditions with a camcorder is with an actual viewfinder that you put your eyeball to. Period. There will never be any monitor ever made that will be better than using a real viewfinder.

But, if you find the image quality of the built-in viewfinder of your camera inadequate or perhaps located at the wrong place on the camera body, then I suggest you look at adding a 3rd party accessory viewfinder instead of a recorder/monitor -- that wouldn't solve the problem anyway. Depending on your budget and technical needs, there are many models available from Zacuto and other manufacturers. If I was in the market for a viewfinder right now I'd take a serious look at the Cineroid EVF4RVW retina display. But if that one doesn't meet your needs, there are others.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/894123-REG/Cineroid_EVF4RVW_with_Retina_Display.html/BI/2855/KBID/3801

The bottom line is that a traditional viewfinder, regardless of the model, is going to be the solution to your problem. Personally, I find the viewfinder on the Z90 perfectly adequate, but that is a judgement call and you don't have to agree.

[Simon Denny]

When I'm shooting outside in a stationary position in the stands or side of track etc.. I still use my old Small HD DP6 monitor with the hood, it's getting old now but does the job and works. It's got SDI and HDMI inputs, I really need to upgrade however no point spinning money if the unit still works.

There's no way I could shoot in the sun using any camera LCD screen, they're to small to start with (i'm getting older now) and the sun kills any chance of seeing the lcd screen. Even when I get the Z90, I'll still need to attached a monitor and a SDI splitter to a feed goes to broadcast and the other to the monitor for me.

[Christopher Young]

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

I don't know who Max is, but I already posted tests with my FS5 more than two years ago that came to that conclusion:

Very interesting Doug. Didn't realize you had done these comparos. It just confirms for me that for 99% of my work that the internal XAVC-I and XAVC-L codecs are more than capable of delivering the quality I require for the bulk of my clients. For both web and TV delivery.

Chris Young

[Cliff Totten]

The subject of HDMI out and video cut-off during recording also affects the camera's use in live event camera switching. I use my cameras for live streaming with Roland and BlackMagic ATEM switchers. So if you want to record locally this is something people need to consider too.

On the ProRes recording? Well....we have to remember that this is only a 1inch sensor with limited dynamic range. So, when wanting to use a high bitrate CODEC, you need to consider the quality of the source. ProRes certainly wont make that small sensor into a Sony full frame or Super35 sensor quality image....hehe.

I have used ProRes from the A7S-II, encoding very dark, low light images and I have noticed a significant difference in how "deep" XAVC Long GOP goes into blacks compared to ProRes. It, of course does on change the dynamic range but If you want to lift and stretch your shadows...even in 8bit, ProRes won't macroblock in shadows the way XAVC-L can sometimes do. With that said, for non-crazy shooting situations, I think XAVC-L/S is perfectly fine and is a good general purpose CODEC.

CT

[Simon Denny]

I highly recommend watching Doug Jensen's master class on the Z90. I have a limited time to get the camera into shape for some gigs and the master class has really pin pointed areas that I need to get up and running fast on the Z90.
This is a massive time saver for me and well worth the cost.

Cheers, Simon

[Doug Jensen]

Thanks for the kind words, Simon. It is very much appreciated and I'm always happy to hear when my videos have really made a difference for someone else.