Sony PXW-Z190 (1/3") and PXW-Z280 (1/2") at NAB

[Doug Jensen]

That explains it!

[Bill Ward]

Paul: what do you think "turbo boost" is for, if not to see thru the lens cap? ;)

[Jonathan Frank]

Enjoying your series, Doug. That comparison night shot made me want to reach for the scotch though. Just bought two 190s and discovering the low light limitations. I’ve read a few posts by you regarding the high sensitivity setting and your disdain for it. So...which is the cleaner option? Have it off and use more gain or have it on and use as little gain as possible. I film a lot of stage shows and lighting designers lately like to light shows with a candle. Literally sometimes. And think seeing faces is not necessary. Sigh. For wide shots especially I’m seeing a lot of noise in background and not as much detail on persons as I would expect given what the close up looks like (which is clear and sharp). Shooting 4K with high sensitivity on and 9 gain...sometimes wide open or down to 4 if I’m lucky (specs for most recent shoot that I’m editing). Hg4

[Paul Anderegg]

The JVC implementation of high sensitivity mode is much better. It's a solid and dependable 6db of boost, with an accompanying slight increase in DNR application, per the BBC report. With a JVC, when you toggle between high sens (extended) and standard sens (normal), the two settings retain separate gain values. With the old Panasonic HPX2000 cameras, you'd activate what was labeled LINE MIX as a custom button function, and that applied the same 6db boost.

On the Z190, you have that huge 2-3 stop gulf when you switch to high sensitivity, so I would not use high mode unless you're absolutely sure you will be happy with 18db as your lowest value. Might just get fast at the menu and switch back and forth as needed.

Paul

[Jonathan Frank]

Of course the last two things I’ve shot have been the trifecta of low light, black backgrounds and dark skinned actors...so high sensitivity and gain were necessary. Thanks for the 411 that high sensitivity is basically starting everything at 18 (that explains what I was seeing)

[Doug Jensen]

I would suggest only activating High Sensitivity mode if you'd already run the gain up to 18dB and you still need a little more. Otherwise, keep it off.

[Jonathan Frank]

Sounds good. I wish we could set High Sensitivity as an assigned button. Early tests on “home footage” seemed to show less noise with high sensitivity and zero gain vs having gain 9-18. But in on site usage...that didn’t seem to be the case.

[Paul Anderegg]

Sony probably has a separate noise reduction algorithm running when high sensitivity is activated, like JVC does. Sony loves noise reduction, but sometimes they seem to forget some of us shoot moving images. On my PXW-X320, at 18db, I need to add +10 detail to overcome the loss of resolution and clarity (blurring) caused by the DNR when turned on.

Paul

[Dave Sperling]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Frank

I film a lot of stage shows and lighting designers lately like to light shows with a candle. Literally sometimes. And think seeing faces is not necessary. Sigh. For wide shots especially I’m seeing a lot of noise in background and not as much detail on persons as I would expect given what the close up looks like (which is clear and sharp).

'Candlelight' brought back memories from shooting promo clips for the Broadway show "Liasons Dangereuses' -- they actually did turn off all the stage spot lights for scene transitions - leaving them lit by only the real candles burning in the candelabra chandeliers, plus sometimes the slightest glow from the foot lights. Looked beautiful to eye but unusably dark on our show cameras. So I set up an A7s with a fast prime shooting a full stage shot (right next to my camera in one of the back rows) and just rolled it for the transitions - ISO was probably set at 6400 or 8000. Incredibly burned out whenever there were stage lights on, but the dark transitions looked wonderful, and several of the A7s shots made their way into the promo montage.

[Jonathan Frank]

Is anybody else having issues with memory cards? I purchased sandisc 128gb extreme Pro cards with the cameras and had no problems. Then b and H had a sale so I figured I would purchase 6. Of them only two were recognized by cameras (other 4 wouldn’t be recognized by either camera either slot). Returned and was told a lot of people were having issues. Figured it was a bad batch. Bought four more from Adorama as that’s where I purchased the working ones. One of them worked. In looking online it seems to be a problem lately with Sony cameras in general.

[Charlie Steiner]

slightly off topic but I have an X200 and thinking to replace it with the Z190. Doug or someone else -- can you compare them for low light shooting?

[Doug Jensen]

It's been many years since I had my hands on an PMW-200 and I have never shot with an X200, so I don't really have any factual knowledge of how they compare to the Z190. But I'm 100% certain that Z190 is the worst of the bunch. It is by far the least light-sensitive video camera I have ever used. Period. My advice to anyone who thinks they might need to shoot indoors without lights or in any other low-light situation is to steer clear of the Z190. The Z280 is literally 4x better in low-light when shooting HD and 2x better in 4K.

[Jonathan Frank]

Doug: how much is gained (if anything) by shooting in 1080 instead of 4K with the z190? I sadly have to agree with you on the light sensitivity (and lack there of). It’s strange as my 6 year old Panasonics are much more light sensitive. I shot a well lit show the other day and still needed 9db gain for most of it. I don’t find much noise and thanks to the settings you recommended in your masterclass on Vimeo I’m very pleased with the color, detail, etc. so seems something I just have to accept and not freak out on (which is hard). But curious if there’s a marked increase in light sensitivity by shooting in 1080

[Doug Jensen]

Hi Jonathan, I'm glad to hear that you liked the master class and found it helpful. Although here is a difference in sensitivity between 4k and HD on the Z280, there is no difference at all on the Z190. It is the same either way. And I agree with you that the increase in noise when the gain is boosted is not all that bad compared to other cameras.

[Jonathan Frank]

Hopefully you've seen an uptick in sales on your master class (I've been hawking that sucker left and right :)

So...just got back from the store and they agreed to let me return my z190s and purchase z280s instead. Which opens the next can of worms question.

Sales person thought that the MEADSD02 SDHC/SDXC CARD ADAPTOR and the SONY 128GB UHS-II SF-G SD CARD would work well, as I'd be shooting in the XAVC-L QFHD 150 mode:3840x2160 (and as that's 150mb and the card is 300mb speed...). Which if memory serves you did not recommend on the graph in your master class. (coupled with nobody seems to have the adaptors in stock in the USA and...)

And buying 4 of the Sony XQD adaptors saves $100 each (so it's actually cheaper to buy 4 of them and the more expensive XQD cards).

The problem now I'm seeing is...it seems that a lot of the Sony XQD cards are discontinued and I'm not sure what the safest option is. 128GB cards seem to be discontinued completely (Per B&H website) which given the whole Sandisk debacle.... In reading Sony's website I think I figured out that the 120 and the 240 GB cards are a more 'robust' housing (and thus more $$$ for less memory).

So before I bite the bullet and buy the cards...would all of them work in the z280 with the XQD adaptor? Are the 256 cards a better bet than the 128 (or visa versa)

Sorry to have so many questions...and be ping ponging so much and appreciate all the help and input