Working with HLG footage at DVinfo.net

Paul Anderegg · March 14th, 2018, 05:51 PM

Anyone with a good grasp on HLG workflow care to share how to work with it in FCPX, PP, Vegas etc? Primarily interested in how to export out to YouTube in an HDR recognized and playable format, and how to export out in normal REC709 for typical HD use. Would like to spend the next two nights shooting 10 bit 4:2:2 HLG HD files at work, very high contrast ENG stuff, to see how HLG looks.

What would be the recommended HLG settings to start off with...don't know what HLG, HLG1, 2, 3 etc mean...not looking to grade, just shoot and render HD REC709 for news and then play with the HDR baked into the clips when I get home.

My starting point... https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208283

Paul Anderegg · March 14th, 2018, 06:21 PM

Using the settings specified in the Apple link, my 4K HDR ProRes422 clips playback as "HD" only, with no HDR indicator displayed. Other 4K HDR clips on YouTube say 4K HDR on my TV screen.

Paul

Paul Anderegg · March 14th, 2018, 08:06 PM

Managed to get a working "4K HDR" video on YouTube...none of the export codecs or settings in FCPX, including any flavor of ProRes, will add the required HDR metadata YT needs. I had to export to Compressor as Apple Devices 4K HEVC...took 32 minutes to export a 27 second test clip.

The results were...MEH...looked really no different than SDR...my TV only does 350nit, so not 1000nit, maybe it would look better on a newer set, but still, the dynamic range was identical, just stretched over the extended NIT range. Highlights will still blow out exactly the same as in REC709.

Paul

Gary Huff · March 14th, 2018, 08:57 PM

Why did you think you'd see HDR footage on a non-HDR television?

Paul Anderegg · March 14th, 2018, 09:04 PM

Why would you think I would get a "4K HDR" icon on a non HDR TV viewing YouTube? :-P

My TV is HDR, just not a high end super bright one.

Paul

Gary Huff · March 14th, 2018, 09:30 PM

What model is it?

Paul Anderegg · March 14th, 2018, 11:03 PM

Samsung UN40JU7100...2015 model, predates HLG.

Paul

Paul Anderegg · March 15th, 2018, 05:36 AM

Two test renders, one with all toggles set to HLG, the other with HLG to PQ conversion settings. Please let me know how these look in HDR, assuming they are working correctly. I checked off the "add HDR metadata" box on Apple HEVC Compressor.

Mark Rosenzweig · March 15th, 2018, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Anderegg

Two test renders, one with all toggles set to HLG, the other with HLG to PQ conversion settings. Please let me know how these look in HDR, assuming they are working correctly. I checked off the "add HDR metadata" box on Apple HEVC Compressor.

The first - all HLG - looked great in HDR, the lights and the reflective material pop and there is detail in the unlit parts. The second is awful - all blacks crushed so there is zero detail in the dark spots.

Cary Knoop · March 15th, 2018, 10:31 AM

Yes first one works, the second one is too dark.

Did you use the PQ curve while grading?
For instance in DaVinci Resolve you should use: Rec2100 - ST2084

Gary Huff · March 15th, 2018, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Anderegg

Samsung UN40JU7100...2015 model, predates HLG.

It’s just a 4K TV. It doesn’t support any HDR modes.

Paul Anderegg · March 15th, 2018, 05:00 PM

I can't grade HLG on my Macbook, it requires an external video card device...the HLG version was just dumped on the timeline, set all to HLG, and exported. The PQ version was all set to PQ, and HLG to PQ conversion option was checked. YouTube and Apple all indicate you are supposed to use PQ for HDR, so guess that info is not entirely accurate.

Paul

Paul Anderegg · March 15th, 2018, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

It’s just a 4K TV. It doesn’t support any HDR modes.

Yes, it received an HDR10 update, and has HDR app support for Netflix and Amazon, but not YouTube. For YouTube, I need to feed it through my Chromecast Ultra.

Still trying to figure out how to export to SDR REC709...I think the BT2020 color mode was a mistake, will test HLG with REC709 color tonight. All my attempts to convert to standard 709 files come out with the colors, red especially, looking desaturated and off color.

Paul

Cary Knoop · March 15th, 2018, 05:07 PM

You need to convert the HLG curve to the PQ curve for your HDR10 video to work.

Also for YouTube you need to set the primaries and other options.

For instance here is an example where you tag the mkv with a custom fallback LUT:

mkvmerge.exe -o video_youtube.mkv --colour-matrix 0:9 --colour-range 0:1 --colour-transfer-characteristics 0:16 --colour-primaries 0:9 --max-content-light 0:1000 --max-frame-light 0:300 --max-luminance 0:1000 --min-luminance 0:0.01 --chromaticity-coordinates 0:0.68,0.32,0.265,0.690,0.15,0.06 --white-colour-coordinates 0:0.3127,0.3290 --attachment-mime-type application/x-cube --attach-file sdr.cube video.mkv

Paul Anderegg · March 15th, 2018, 05:17 PM

I did HLG to PQ option in FCPX.

FCPX has an area for HDR metadata, but you cannot access or change it, it just is all greyed out. At the point where I have to hex edit a video file to get it to work right is the point I get out of video production. :-D

The worst part of this HLG workflow, is that I cannot preview it on my Macbook, or my TV, so unable to grade or adjust anything. It takes about an hour to spit out 30 seconds of footage through Compressor, upload to YouTube, wait for it to process, then watch it on my TV...and that's just for testing each setting, it's driving me crazy.

Paul

March 14th, 2018, 05:51 PM	#1
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Working with HLG footage Anyone with a good grasp on HLG workflow care to share how to work with it in FCPX, PP, Vegas etc? Primarily interested in how to export out to YouTube in an HDR recognized and playable format, and how to export out in normal REC709 for typical HD use. Would like to spend the next two nights shooting 10 bit 4:2:2 HLG HD files at work, very high contrast ENG stuff, to see how HLG looks. What would be the recommended HLG settings to start off with...don't know what HLG, HLG1, 2, 3 etc mean...not looking to grade, just shoot and render HD REC709 for news and then play with the HDR baked into the clips when I get home. My starting point... https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208283

March 14th, 2018, 06:21 PM	#2
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Working with HLG footage Using the settings specified in the Apple link, my 4K HDR ProRes422 clips playback as "HD" only, with no HDR indicator displayed. Other 4K HDR clips on YouTube say 4K HDR on my TV screen. Paul

March 14th, 2018, 08:06 PM	#3
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Working with HLG footage Managed to get a working "4K HDR" video on YouTube...none of the export codecs or settings in FCPX, including any flavor of ProRes, will add the required HDR metadata YT needs. I had to export to Compressor as Apple Devices 4K HEVC...took 32 minutes to export a 27 second test clip. The results were...MEH...looked really no different than SDR...my TV only does 350nit, so not 1000nit, maybe it would look better on a newer set, but still, the dynamic range was identical, just stretched over the extended NIT range. Highlights will still blow out exactly the same as in REC709. Paul

March 14th, 2018, 08:57 PM	#4
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: Working with HLG footage Why did you think you'd see HDR footage on a non-HDR television?

March 14th, 2018, 09:04 PM	#5
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Working with HLG footage Why would you think I would get a "4K HDR" icon on a non HDR TV viewing YouTube? :-P My TV is HDR, just not a high end super bright one. Paul

March 14th, 2018, 09:30 PM	#6
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: Working with HLG footage What model is it?

March 14th, 2018, 11:03 PM	#7
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Working with HLG footage Samsung UN40JU7100...2015 model, predates HLG. Paul

March 15th, 2018, 05:36 AM	#8
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Working with HLG footage Two test renders, one with all toggles set to HLG, the other with HLG to PQ conversion settings. Please let me know how these look in HDR, assuming they are working correctly. I checked off the "add HDR metadata" box on Apple HEVC Compressor. YouTube (Short URL) YouTube (Short URL)

March 15th, 2018, 10:31 AM	#10
Cary Knoop Major Player Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Newark, CA Posts: 324	Re: Working with HLG footage Yes first one works, the second one is too dark. Did you use the PQ curve while grading? For instance in DaVinci Resolve you should use: Rec2100 - ST2084

March 15th, 2018, 05:00 PM	#12
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Working with HLG footage I can't grade HLG on my Macbook, it requires an external video card device...the HLG version was just dumped on the timeline, set all to HLG, and exported. The PQ version was all set to PQ, and HLG to PQ conversion option was checked. YouTube and Apple all indicate you are supposed to use PQ for HDR, so guess that info is not entirely accurate. Paul

March 15th, 2018, 05:07 PM	#14
Cary Knoop Major Player Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Newark, CA Posts: 324	Re: Working with HLG footage You need to convert the HLG curve to the PQ curve for your HDR10 video to work. Also for YouTube you need to set the primaries and other options. For instance here is an example where you tag the mkv with a custom fallback LUT: mkvmerge.exe -o video_youtube.mkv --colour-matrix 0:9 --colour-range 0:1 --colour-transfer-characteristics 0:16 --colour-primaries 0:9 --max-content-light 0:1000 --max-frame-light 0:300 --max-luminance 0:1000 --min-luminance 0:0.01 --chromaticity-coordinates 0:0.68,0.32,0.265,0.690,0.15,0.06 --white-colour-coordinates 0:0.3127,0.3290 --attachment-mime-type application/x-cube --attach-file sdr.cube video.mkv

March 15th, 2018, 05:17 PM	#15
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: Working with HLG footage I did HLG to PQ option in FCPX. FCPX has an area for HDR metadata, but you cannot access or change it, it just is all greyed out. At the point where I have to hex edit a video file to get it to work right is the point I get out of video production. :-D The worst part of this HLG workflow, is that I cannot preview it on my Macbook, or my TV, so unable to grade or adjust anything. It takes about an hour to spit out 30 seconds of footage through Compressor, upload to YouTube, wait for it to process, then watch it on my TV...and that's just for testing each setting, it's driving me crazy. Paul