PXW-Z150 to get Firmware upgrade

Craig Seeman · March 23rd, 2017, 08:42 PM

Sony announce expanded HDR workflows, new firmware for FS5 and PXW-Z150 - Newsshooter

PXW-Z150 will receive an HLG upgrade via firmware, which will be implemented in camera by a new picture profile option. Switching over to the new profile will also enable the BT.2020 colour space on the cameras.

The new firmwares for the FS5 and PXW-Z150 will be available in July

Cliff Totten · March 24th, 2017, 12:05 AM

Woah!

Im not familiar Hybrid Log Gamma. I know SLOG-2/3 very well though. Is HLG rec709 800% or 1300% ?

For the Z150, this seems like a fantastic upgrade.

We know that Z150 sensor can catch about 11.5 stops of DR. Anybody know if this HLG can map the entire sensor scale?

Paul Anderegg · March 27th, 2017, 03:32 AM

As long as you keep highlights at 90IRE, they won't clip...the HLG would probably just suck 0-20IRE and force them up to 40-50IRE. :-)

So would this mean 150Mbps 10 bit 4:2:2 UHD capability?

Paul

Peter Lowe · March 31st, 2017, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Anderegg

So would this mean 150Mbps 10 bit 4:2:2 UHD capability?

Paul

If that comes about would you not need to wrap it in a wet towel to stop it from boiling? :-)

Cliff Totten · April 1st, 2017, 08:08 AM

Sony would never give the Z150 or FS5 10bit in 4k.

Y'know.....the Z150 DOES have an active cooling fan. I have always wondered why Sony put a cooling fan on a 1 inch-type sensor when no other 1 inch-type camera has ever needed it.

Those chips run cool. Even the RX10-II can shoot for 3 hours straight without stopping. (PM Hack) So, my guess is that it there to keep its temp extra low to help heat noise low?

Donald McPherson · April 1st, 2017, 04:35 PM

Nobody has asked yet.
So I will be the first fool to ask.
Why not the X70?

Cliff Totten · April 1st, 2017, 08:58 PM

Cost is too low. Marketing reasons. However, Sony gladly gives its much cheaper 1inch-type cameras SLOG-2. Hell, all their latest Alpha models have SLOG. XDCAMs are often too expensive to get SLOG today. Thats a feature reserved for cheaper Alphas and CyberShots. Lol

Also, I suspect that the Z150's newer stacked sensor could be better suited to HLG than the X70's older generation sensor.

Peter Lowe · April 2nd, 2017, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

Cost is too low. Marketing reasons.

Maybe Sony reckons the run and gunners the X70 is supposedly aimed at don´t have time to muck about with SLOG?

Cliff Totten · April 2nd, 2017, 06:35 PM

Well? I guess factually....and this isn't silly, goofy joking on my part.....

Sony gives SLOG-2 on cameras that start are under $1000 and go all the way to the "consumer" A7R-II...then SLOG-2 suddenly "disappears" on the "professional" NXCAMs and XDCAMs models all the way up until you hit the FS5, where it comes back again....bizarre, right? This is not my opinion, it's a fact.

The tiny RX100 V. This is an excellent point and shoot camera that is marketed to Soccer moms and similar customers. It has SLOG-2 and even has 240, 480 and 960 fps slow motion! Now, my 96 year old grandmother loves her RX100 V. She loves color grading her cat videos with the 11 stops of DR that it gives her using SLOG-2. She is one consumer that truly understands how to expose SLOG-2 a stop and half to the right as well. This is not something a typical X70 customer would likely be able to handle easily..

I was going to give Sony some money and upgrade her to the X70 but the first thing she asked me was:

My Nana: "Sweetie,...does the X70 have 11 stops of dynamic range and SLOG-2?"

Me: "No Nana, the X70 can only give you 6-7 stops of rec709-ish CineTones"

My Nana: "Oh dear!,....Sorry but I think I'll keep my SLOG-2 instead. I'd prefer the drastically better DR on my little consumer RX100 V."

What could I say? She makes a great point.

I guess maybe you are right...X70 pros don't want to mess with SLOG-2 the way that Sony's very sophisticated Alpha and Cybershot customers certainly do. I'm sure Sony's marketing people have documented this phenomenon very carefully.

CT ;-)

Peter Lowe · April 2nd, 2017, 09:43 PM

yep sometimes my goofy side goes awol and apologize for that.

I am a newbie in this dv world but have learned by experimenting and forum posts like this the advantages (as well as the limitations) a tool like the X70 can provide for the independent assignments I do. So far I have only read about SLOG and can understand how it is important for experienced professionals who are doing more advanced work than I do - but have never had the need to use it to complete my assignments, so that is why I suggest perhaps in a tongue and cheek manner that is not really needed that SLOG may not be very important for everybody attempting to work with an X70 as is at least the case for me. When I was younger many of my fellow students who like myself were just getting into photography spent an awful lot of time talking about how many mps such and such camera had as well as other features that were used to sell cameras to garrulous enthusiasts (like your grandmother) but did not necessarily have a lot to do with making good photos. So even though we come at this from two different angles I think in some ways we agree.

March 23rd, 2017, 08:42 PM	#1
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	PXW-Z150 to get Firmware upgrade - Apparently not X70 though Sony announce expanded HDR workflows, new firmware for FS5 and PXW-Z150 - Newsshooter PXW-Z150 will receive an HLG upgrade via firmware, which will be implemented in camera by a new picture profile option. Switching over to the new profile will also enable the BT.2020 colour space on the cameras. The new firmwares for the FS5 and PXW-Z150 will be available in July

March 24th, 2017, 12:05 AM	#2
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: PXW-Z150 to get Firmware upgrade - Apparently not X70 though Woah! Im not familiar Hybrid Log Gamma. I know SLOG-2/3 very well though. Is HLG rec709 800% or 1300% ? For the Z150, this seems like a fantastic upgrade. We know that Z150 sensor can catch about 11.5 stops of DR. Anybody know if this HLG can map the entire sensor scale? Last edited by Cliff Totten; March 24th, 2017 at 03:16 PM.

March 27th, 2017, 03:32 AM	#3
Paul Anderegg Trustee Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Diego, Califonia Posts: 1,559	Re: PXW-Z150 to get Firmware upgrade - Apparently not X70 though As long as you keep highlights at 90IRE, they won't clip...the HLG would probably just suck 0-20IRE and force them up to 40-50IRE. :-) So would this mean 150Mbps 10 bit 4:2:2 UHD capability? Paul

April 1st, 2017, 08:08 AM	#5
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: PXW-Z150 to get Firmware upgrade - Apparently not X70 though Sony would never give the Z150 or FS5 10bit in 4k. Y'know.....the Z150 DOES have an active cooling fan. I have always wondered why Sony put a cooling fan on a 1 inch-type sensor when no other 1 inch-type camera has ever needed it. Those chips run cool. Even the RX10-II can shoot for 3 hours straight without stopping. (PM Hack) So, my guess is that it there to keep its temp extra low to help heat noise low?

April 1st, 2017, 04:35 PM	#6
Donald McPherson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Posts: 815	Re: PXW-Z150 to get Firmware upgrade - Apparently not X70 though Nobody has asked yet. So I will be the first fool to ask. Why not the X70?

April 1st, 2017, 08:58 PM	#7
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: PXW-Z150 to get Firmware upgrade - Apparently not X70 though Cost is too low. Marketing reasons. However, Sony gladly gives its much cheaper 1inch-type cameras SLOG-2. Hell, all their latest Alpha models have SLOG. XDCAMs are often too expensive to get SLOG today. Thats a feature reserved for cheaper Alphas and CyberShots. Lol Also, I suspect that the Z150's newer stacked sensor could be better suited to HLG than the X70's older generation sensor.

April 2nd, 2017, 06:35 PM	#9
Cliff Totten Trustee Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 1,197	Re: PXW-Z150 to get Firmware upgrade - Apparently not X70 though Well? I guess factually....and this isn't silly, goofy joking on my part..... Sony gives SLOG-2 on cameras that start are under $1000 and go all the way to the "consumer" A7R-II...then SLOG-2 suddenly "disappears" on the "professional" NXCAMs and XDCAMs models all the way up until you hit the FS5, where it comes back again....bizarre, right? This is not my opinion, it's a fact. The tiny RX100 V. This is an excellent point and shoot camera that is marketed to Soccer moms and similar customers. It has SLOG-2 and even has 240, 480 and 960 fps slow motion! Now, my 96 year old grandmother loves her RX100 V. She loves color grading her cat videos with the 11 stops of DR that it gives her using SLOG-2. She is one consumer that truly understands how to expose SLOG-2 a stop and half to the right as well. This is not something a typical X70 customer would likely be able to handle easily.. I was going to give Sony some money and upgrade her to the X70 but the first thing she asked me was: My Nana: "Sweetie,...does the X70 have 11 stops of dynamic range and SLOG-2?" Me: "No Nana, the X70 can only give you 6-7 stops of rec709-ish CineTones" My Nana: "Oh dear!,....Sorry but I think I'll keep my SLOG-2 instead. I'd prefer the drastically better DR on my little consumer RX100 V." What could I say? She makes a great point. I guess maybe you are right...X70 pros don't want to mess with SLOG-2 the way that Sony's very sophisticated Alpha and Cybershot customers certainly do. I'm sure Sony's marketing people have documented this phenomenon very carefully. CT ;-)

April 2nd, 2017, 09:43 PM	#10
Peter Lowe Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Tepetlaoxtoc MX Posts: 37	Re: PXW-Z150 to get Firmware upgrade - Apparently not X70 though yep sometimes my goofy side goes awol and apologize for that. I am a newbie in this dv world but have learned by experimenting and forum posts like this the advantages (as well as the limitations) a tool like the X70 can provide for the independent assignments I do. So far I have only read about SLOG and can understand how it is important for experienced professionals who are doing more advanced work than I do - but have never had the need to use it to complete my assignments, so that is why I suggest perhaps in a tongue and cheek manner that is not really needed that SLOG may not be very important for everybody attempting to work with an X70 as is at least the case for me. When I was younger many of my fellow students who like myself were just getting into photography spent an awful lot of time talking about how many mps such and such camera had as well as other features that were used to sell cameras to garrulous enthusiasts (like your grandmother) but did not necessarily have a lot to do with making good photos. So even though we come at this from two different angles I think in some ways we agree.